Off the Record

Sidd Ekkad 0:00
Hi, I'm Sidd Ekkad. And I am joined today by-

Cardigan 0:04
Cardigan, hello. Khamadi Brown.

Sidd Ekkad 0:07
And he has an album coming out called I Love Madi, and he is in the midst of working on it. And today we're gonna talk about it and just talk about all the great stuff he's been working on, and all the stuff he's been releasing, and just kind of where it all comes from. So, just for the first question, if, for example, like, someone is asking you like, how would you pitch yourself as like, a rapper? How would you individualize yourself? What, what would you say is your selling point when talking to people.

Cardigan 0:36
I do think it's- I look at grand scheme a lot. So, I would definitely include the highs and lows, including, you know, when I made my first mixtape, when I was like, 14, showing them that, you know, growth is really important. And being a rapper, producer from day one, it's like, because I had so many outlets, you know, as a kid who's, you know, only 18, I had a lot of outlets of being a producer and rapping myself, just by myself, not having to go and get a beat or whatever, you know, I'll rap on a beat from here and there, but I really like doing everything. I'm a like, I'm a very soloist person, I've kind of been like that all my life. And so when I get to tamper with things that have been given to me, like instrumentals, and just me making my own instrumentals and taking inspiration from other instrumentals, it's like, I can just do me and I don't have to ask anybody else for validation, because it's all me, you know, like, it's 100% me, so I'm just me, you know, very different. You don't really see anything like this. I'm very confident in saying like that, like, style wise, music wise, like, direct inspiration, I could just like, I could let somebody know, like, second 32 of this song is inspired by this thing. Like, you know, I'm very inspired. I take a lot of things from inspiration. So.

Sidd Ekkad 1:59
I think that's great, because these days, I think having like a wide palette, especially really helps you like integrate into your music. What would you say? When you, you said you were rapping over a lot of instrumentals like back when you were first starting, what were some of those instrumentals that really like, had you hooked?

Cardigan 2:14
Um, so I made this beat. It was crazy, because I was, let's see, this was summer of 2017. July, my brother and my mom went to a Kendrick concert. And I skipped out because I don't know, I wasn't really big into concerts back then. So I was staying in the hotel, my dad, and I had my mom's work computer. And that was when I was first starting to, like make beats for real. And I sample, I was playing on my DS. And I was in the settings. And the the 3ds setting steam is probably the first thing I ever sampled. And I slowed it down. And I made this really, like really cool beat on, I made a song called Ouch. And it was just me just saying, ouch, ouch, whatever. And it was like, Man, I could do this. You know, like, that was the first time some people would do things and they're like, ah, maybe next time but like, I was just like, Man, I'm locked and loaded already, you know? And I was like, I wasn't even rapping that hard. But I just, I had the vision, I set the precedent for like, my growth.

Sidd Ekkad 3:15
That's awesome.

Cardigan 3:15
Always a starting point somewhere.

Sidd Ekkad 3:17
Yeah, that's great. And what was that uh, software that you use?

Cardigan 3:20
Uh, it was, I believe some Linux music making software that was like free.

Sidd Ekkad 3:28
Oh.

Cardigan 3:29
So it was like, if, if Fruity Loops was Windows 10, that was like Windows 98. That was like, like it was bare bones. It was crazy.

Sidd Ekkad 3:40
But you made the most of it.

Cardigan 3:41
I made it work.

Sidd Ekkad 3:41
Yeah.

Cardigan 3:42
A lot of my favorite beats I made were on there, and people were asking me what do I use, and I'll be like that. And they'll be like, bro. So I just, you know, it's being comfortable with what you're dealing with.

Sidd Ekkad 3:53
Yeah, I just think it's more about how you use the resources versus like the resource itself, like you could give like, anyone like that like, kind of software like, like elite software but it's like, more like, how you like,

Cardigan 4:03
Yeah, for sure. It took me a while to get used to, I use Logic. Took me a while to get used to that, but also I have that knowledge of using GarageBand prior, you know, GarageBand and Logic kind of go hand in hand, you know the same way you know iMovie and Final Cut, you know how Apple is. But um, I started making tiny little GarageBand beats on my phone and then I like, I looked for ones on the computer because you know I didn't really have a Mac back then, and you know GarageBand and Logic are Mac exclusive so I was like, I wonder what an alternative is. And like my, my brother Josh, he showed me Linux music making software, he was making music before me, he actually put me on. It was like a, it was like a beatmaker-rapper friendship. And then it kind of, I started making beats and he started, so we like did it together. And we still do, as a, like as a- we don't really like post them or anything but like, you know, he's on the album on like a skit. Like us talking about stuff. And yeah, I'll be showing him music all the time. That's my brother.

Sidd Ekkad 5:01
Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, no, definitely having a good relationship, especially with someone that close to you. That's important.

Cardigan 5:06
I wouldn't be making beats if it wasn't for him.

Sidd Ekkad 5:09
Yeah, that's great. Yeah. And then would you say like, who would you say like, some of your biggest producer inspirations are?

Cardigan 5:18
I got a long list. But if I had to say top three, growing up and finally find, like, like, realizing who made beats, because I was super into, like, I was super curious, because, you know, being a producer doesn't really come with its odds and ends, like 10 years ago, because it was just like, there was no producer tags back then. Or whatever. Like, maybe you'll hear like a Just Blaze or like, like, you'll hear very little producer tags. It'll be like the rapper mentioning it or something. Like, maybe they'll use that on another song. But producer tags didn't really exist when I was, you know, starting to really listen to music, you know, 09, 2010, 2011 starting to pay attention to it. So if I had to give a top three in my music that just, just goes, it's probably Ye, obviously. Pierre Bourne for sure. I owe that man like, a lot. And then like probably Pharrell, but that, that, all three of those inspirations, dive deeper from the producer world, like I take inspiration from them. And I don't like to separate their production from what they do in real life. So like, all three of those people, I take inspiration from like, even outside of producing. So probably Ye, Pierre and Pharrell.

Sidd Ekkad 6:37
Yeah. The thing with Ye and Pharrell and I wonder if you like, agree with me. It's like, when you said no producer tags, but it's like, recently, I think what really hit me was that Pusha T album that came out like, it's like, you can tell whenever, like, each one's beat was being used because of just like.

Cardigan 6:54
Yeah, it's like, they built, they built such a empire on that. And it's like, even without Pharrell's 4 count, which it's um, it's on that album a lot.

Sidd Ekkad 7:04
Yeah.

Cardigan 7:05
Even without Pharrell's 4 count, what I didn't like about the album. It's Almost Dry. What I do like now is like, I listened to it the first time and I was like, Man, I just wish Pharrell like, went a little more out of the boundary of the same eight away and snare, but then I listened to it. And I was like, oh, like I just got it instantly like, Brambleton, Smoker's Shine The Coupes, all completely different sample choices, but they got the same eight away and snares, it's a rim, some crazy snare. It's bananas. But um, yeah, I just, I just got it. I understood.

Sidd Ekkad 7:40
Oh yeah, for sure.

Cardigan 7:41
That, yeah, for sure that, Pusha T as well, in terms of like, rapping. So I'm probably, that's probably the question already. But.

Sidd Ekkad 7:49
Oh, yeah, for sure. That was actually, was going to transition to me to my next point was, who are your biggest like, rappers for you?

Cardigan 7:54
That's an even longer list because like, the rap community has, like, a pretty big problem about differentiating like, inspiration from like, biting, because like, people always want to go quick into like, Oh, you're biting and stealing. It's like, dog. Somebody made a painting with this color paint already, you know, like, I just use it differently. So if I had to think, like, I'd be rapping my ass off. I'm like a really good writer. And like, I'll be having flow changes and stuff. But Pusha T as a, as a thought process of the bars I write, they don't even have to be similar to his, but as a thought process especially recently, him for sure. Because I'm, I lived in Virginia when I was a kid and I kind of grew up on clips. And also Pharrell. I'm really big on how Pusha T presents himself and how he knows he's it. The it factor is incredible for Pusha T. And then I probably have to say Doom for sure.

Sidd Ekkad 9:15
Doom's great.

Cardigan 9:16
Um, recently with my words, a lot of people have been telling me they've like, they've seen a lot of Doom. Recently, probably, I've listened to a lot of Boldy James recently, Boldy James. All of his like, he just, he raps his ass off. It's ridiculous how he just keeps,

Sidd Ekkad 9:40
He sounds so casual with it too.

Cardigan 9:42
Right? And it's like, I feel like he does it in his sleep.

Sidd Ekkad 9:45
Yeah, he actually he's got it down to a science and the way he be releasing, it's so quick.

Cardigan 9:49
Yeah. Yeah, main ones, you know, you got you, you got your Ye. Um, I definitely, in terms of inspiration, I don't really rap like Jay-Z, like him, but I, I love him. I love his work. I love what you've done for rap, and how like, you know, with me, again saying that, in fact, he just, he got, he started in and he just knew immediately. And I like people who do that, like, you know, second guessing makes you worse at what you do. So yeah.

Sidd Ekkad 10:21
It's the hungriness for sure, like being.

Cardigan 10:24
Yeah, I can definitely tell. Oh, speaking of which, the Saturation trilogy by Brockhampton for sure; all, all seven of the vocalists like even just, just early Brockhampton In general, that's when I started rapping for real and so I was just like, they're hungry. They were starving.

Sidd Ekkad 10:41
Oh, yeah.

Cardigan 10:42
It's ridiculous. You can even just hear it.

Sidd Ekkad 10:44
Oh, yeah, for sure. I think the thing about Brockhampton was like, especially now because you see it with like, I was actually talking to a friend about this the other day, he was saying, like, I was listening to Paris Texas, and AG Club and it's just like crazy, because it's like, Brockhampton really influenced a lot of people to just, go out there and do it.

Cardigan 10:59
They don't realize it until, until it's said. Brockhampton was like, you know, reasons, like a lot of artists like Injury Reserve and AG Club, and Paris Texas could, could strive, it's just because like, knowing that it's a collective, just being collective with the group, they did a lot for that.

Sidd Ekkad 11:21
Oh yeah.

Cardigan 11:22
And they were definitely on the, whatever you are in the team, you're part of the team, sometimes, you know, boy bands and stuff, they were such a critically acclaimed boy band, and they label themselves as a boy band, because they wanted that to break the boundary, because it's normally just the vocalists that are on the star of, you know, maybe one producer, but it was like, everybody's gonna get the same treatment- producer, graphic designer, videographer, photo, like photographer, like they wanted everybody to get their share. And that's, that's exactly what I want. But it's crazy. Because I love that because I'm a soloist. And so I want people to know that I'm doing this all myself.

Sidd Ekkad 10:59
Oh, yeah, for sure. It's definitely great that like, you're taking a lot of this into your own hands. And like, you want to create, cultivate the creative process. Now, I would like to kind of move into what you've worked on, like your collaborations in the past, and then kind of what you're bringing into the future. So my first question on that realm would be, kind of going back to the Pasamba collaboration, how did that like occur? Like, how did you connect with him? And then how did like that creative process? Because you mentioned to me earlier that he was all the way in a different state. So like, how did that kind of.

Cardigan 12:31
Actually, me and- Or Konde was was internet friends with him? I don't, I haven't. I haven't found out the specifics on like, where they met or anything, but as soon as we like, me and, me and P started talking, and I was like, like, we're like really similar. And a lot of our interests are similar in music and stuff. And so it was around the time, I want to say late November, early December, where I was just like, Hey, mind giving me some beats? Like I saw your beats and they're incredible. And he said the same thing back just like with my music, and with Salem, I released an album I think November last year, Salem, whole green joint, but um, yeah, we linked and then he sent me two beats. And I think around January of this year, my hard drive like just got like, messed up. And I was super like, I was super down about it. It was like I went through the five stages of grief. Like I was working on a really good album, which was Kamadi at the time. Think it was called Shotgun House before that. I was working on it. And then just from that, from the months of January to April, I actually got it back on April 1st, which is funny. And I was like, awesome, because that put the battery in my back. I was like, I was screwed. Like I had nothing. I have a really bad laptop that I still use that's like filtered, you know that notification you get where it tells you your disk is almost full every single second of the day. And that's how messed up my laptop was. I was, dude I was screwed. I was like, damn, I don't want to write, I don't want to make music. I don't want to make any beats. And then um, it randomly start, after I got it sent back by a company who was like, I don't know what the problem is. It just worked. So I was like. Awesome. Cool. I released Bottle Caps as a single because I had, that was the only song that was like 100% done. Because I had dropped ATM in December. That was from that album. I also overlooked that song a lot. It's really good. I forget how good that song is sometimes. And then I just, I finished the album. Incredible, really good reception. I was putting posters around downtown Raleigh, but I got a lot of like you know, a lot of people say that's their favorite album from mine. But, getting back to your question. That song, track seven, Cardi Samba, which was, it's called Cardi Samba, which is, it gets really difficult when I bring it up because they're like, are you talking about the album or the song? Like, dude, I don't even know. But, um, that song, everybody was like, Yo, this one is like it, cuz I, I rap. Like, I rap really well, I actually wrote, I was having a couple of heart problems like early, early this year, because I was, I was super anxious. And I was, um, I was grieving at the time, and I wasn't really letting it out. So you know, that manifests physically a lot. And so I was having heart problems. So I was in the, I ended up getting in the hospital, I think, New Year's Day. And I was with my dad and I was writing this bar. I was like, I was like, talking to him about the verse. And I was like, when I wrote that, down in the water, it's my last shift, staying hydrated, white paintings in the labyrinth. I was like, Okay, this is one of the best verses I've ever written. And so I just started going, rapping my ass off. And the only thing I added to that beat was an 808. And that really just gave me that battery. And then I got my friend Taco to scream on it, because I was like, I need that DJ drama. That's like, I need that gangster girls, yo, go Cardigan, like this is crazy. And then that ended up. They ended up being the narrator of the new album. And we just go ahead and hit him and like, he'll send me stuff. I'll send him stuff. We'll be like, Yo, this is incredible. Every time I've sent him stuff he'd be like this is so, this is the best thing you ever made. And I never want to end it. You know, I never want to be like, I always want the thing I send him to be the best thing I've ever made.

Sidd Ekkad 16:41
Oh. Yeah.

Cardigan 16:41
And so yeah, with, especially with this new one called Jewels. It's got, you know, Black Phoenix on it. That's my brother. I'm just like, wow, like, it's such like, I was like, I didn't ask him for any specifics. I was like, Hey, can I get like a mid 80s, early 90s BPM. And I kind of, he, I just knew what, where his head was at because it was just very late summer. Starting school like, barbecue-esque, labor day-esque. I was like, I made it like a cookout song. And it's like, it's so good. It's really good. But yeah, I never want to stop man. It's like, like, we're, we've got this bond and it's like over the phone, which is like, it's incredible.

Sidd Ekkad 17:28
Have you guys ever like met in person?

Cardigan 17:30
No, I really plan on doing it. Next year is gonna be really big for me, just in general, because, man, I've got you know, Cardi Samba is doing really well. I dropped that the first of July. And so with July, August, September. September is a really big month for me. It has been and it's crazy that it's almost over. But it's been a really big month for me. I've been doing a lot of open mics. I've been getting my name up a lot. And then you know, October, my new album comes out on the seventh that I'm really excited for just because it's like, I made it like, I didn't even make it quick on purpose. Like, I'm a very quality over quantity person. I choose songs to work on. You know, a lot of people make 20-30 songs. They don't even know what they're like, they go to the studio, they just leave, they, you know, post it on an album that's not even cohesive. It's kind of just a compilation. Like, I really like working on albums. Like, I like you know, the rollout I do, or the things I am looking at in terms of inspiration. I want those that stem from kind of the same things. It's like, I love working on albums and I love being like okay, this is a good album. Some songs are really good from albums that aren't good.

Sidd Ekkad 18:36
Oh, yeah, for sure.

Cardigan 18:37
But I want every song to be, that's an album song. You can take it out of context or in context. So it's kind of, I kind of try to meet that equilibrium.

Sidd Ekkad 18:46
Album cuts are definitely underrated for sure. I definitely. I always think about the 30 Hours Kanye goes: "this is a, you know those bonus tracks for the album we always take"

Cardigan 18:54
Yeah, yeah. That song's, that song's like really good. The whole Life of Pablo. I was just talking to somebody about how like, The Life of Pablo is an unfinished album with finished songs. Like Highlights. Like Highlights is incredible. Facts is incredible. 30 Hours is insane because it's like, but like also me when it came out and me now I'm like, that's not really that good of an album. But it, there's amazing songs on it.

Sidd Ekkad 19:24
Oh, I always say it's sequence like,

Cardigan 19:26
That's what I'm saying. Yeah, that's like, that's like, that's pure Ye. And like what he was talking about was like, only Ye could say that. He was like, Yo, I'm better than Apple. I'm better than Nike. And we were like, oh, okay, you're the only person who would say that.

Sidd Ekkad 19:42
The rollout was crazy too. One of the weirdest rollouts. I don't think, I think Donda was almost there but like, yeah that, I don't even think that is, that was so crazy but that's good. I think you highlighting like album cuts and like, in like, kind of just emphasizing like, a cohesive like, narrative within your album. That's actually where I was gonna kind of go back to like, what is the foundational idea behind like this upcoming LP, like, "I Love You Madi"

Cardigan 20:07
Um, foundation, it's very funny you said foundation because track six on Kamadi. This is a sequel to Kamadi. This is the sequel, I'm going to keep it a sequel, I'm not going to make like a third one or anything keep going, but I'm definitely going to keep going Cardi Samba. But um, this is a sequel, and track six specifically on Kamadi called Lip Gloss is like one of my favorite songs, beats, themes. It was kind of about how intimacy really pushes a relationship. And then sometimes it's all you have. And so when you take that away, it's just not a relationship anymore. And for this album, I really wanted to, because the first song I made for making this album was, it's called Two Face, it's track ten, it's the outro, I really wanted to make it the outro because it's just like, it's a magnum opus song for me, I do that with a lot of my outros. But, um, it's called Two Face because, you know, the makeup brand Too Faced but also two being two, the number two sequel. And the theme of the whole album is like, either, like, makeup, you know, fallacies, you know, kind of like, you know, lying, not really lying, but a lot of confusion there. As well as, like, you know, putting on, putting on a facade, you know, it's just like, I'm not gonna say makeup is put on a facade, you know, but I'm just making shit up, you know, like, it was, I had gotten out of this, you know, sticky situation I had with somebody. And I was actually waiting for the right moment to start really making music about them. And so, um, I didn't, I didn't, I wanted to wait it out. I didn't want to rush anything. Because, you know, I can't rush greatness, as some people say. But I always bring up the fact that, you know, if you start a painting, and you're like, really happy about the painting, and something bad happens in your mind, you're not gonna want to finish it. But the other way around, it makes like the greatest painting ever. And so when I started off negativity, and I built that negativity up into positivity, I really wanted to finish, you know, the painting. And so that's kind of what it is, it's like a really good painting. You know, there's songs in it that don't really match the theme, but I definitely do think they're in the right spot of the album where that's okay, you know, got a little, got a little interludes from my amazing friend, Jessie. She sent me like 15 minutes or her just talking, I gave her three talking points. Because a lot of this album, skits and words and dialogue are really candid, I didn't want to be like, okay, action, say this in, like in the camera, say this this way, whatever. I really wanted it all to be natural. So I could use it the way I would like to use it to make it sound like really authentic. And that's what I really shot for. And I, you know, I made the goal. She sent me like 15 minutes of her talking. And about, you know, I asked her to bring up her makeup routine and bring up her skincare routine, just because that was one of the main themes of the album. And then also just talking about your life, because this album is really about my life and where I am right now. And I'm glad I can soon enough, close that, close that chapter off and start new. Start fresh. And this is really encapsulating my life in between July and September. And so, theme-wise, I got a song called Beautiful Life on there. It's incredible just because you know, that's the intro track. It's just, it's so beautiful. Yeah, I just want to say, you know, makeup, me having an amazing life. And then also the path of like, my culinary like, path that I'm taking right now. You know, I'm a, I'm a chef. So I have that. And then I also have music. So it's just like, those paths are growing at the same time. Like really exponentially. And so that's something I rap about a lot as well.

That's definitely great. I think like using like music as an outlet, would you say like, that's your prime outlet for like, getting out like, your thoughts and emotions?

Yeah, because it doesn't even always have to be verbal. You know, I could, I could put my heart into a beat with no words. You know, that's what I love about making music. It can encapsulate and say so much without even saying anything.

Sidd Ekkad 24:36
Oh, yeah.

Cardigan 24:36
So yeah, I love making music. It does really get a lot of my emotions out, especially because I can listen to it over and over again. It's really you know.

Sidd Ekkad 24:43
Definitely like beats for sure. Like, I think that Louie album that came out with Kenny Beats.

Cardigan 24:49
I shedded, I shedded so many tears listening to that for first time. I was like, man, it looks incredible. And the fact that it was like a gift.

Sidd Ekkad 24:55
To his dad.

Cardigan 24:56
Yeah.

Sidd Ekkad 24:56
Insane.

Cardigan 24:57
That was incredible.

Sidd Ekkad 24:58
Yeah, or even like J Dilla. Like Donuts.

Cardigan 25:00
Yeah, Dilla, yeah. I wouldn't like, I've been chopping a lot of samples like Dilla. But like, I'm so far and detached from that because I can't achieve that in my greatest day.

Sidd Ekkad 25:12
Oh, he's, that's upper echelon production. But just like, that's like, a lot of people don't realize that like, you can use beats like, you don't have to like, what you just said, like, you don't say words, but you just put it in, like, just throw it into the soul. And you can definitely get that a lot. Would you say Pasamba kind of helps you, Pasamba helped you a lot?

Cardigan 25:32
Yeah, for sure. I, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but I think they're going to school for engineering, like musical engineering in New Jersey. And so he changed the view of how I felt about Sonics a lot, because, like, the stuff he would send me was just like, like, literally, the stems would be 30 to 40 tracks, and I'll be like, Yo, like, you're doing a lot. And it's like, it's incredible how, like, I can't even fathom doing that, like, you know, I like, I like simplicity with my production. But like, I like simplicity that people don't know, if they click play, they don't know, it's simple, like, I'll have some really complex stuff behind, or vice versa, you know, it'll be a really complex beat, but I'll, I'll literally only press four buttons, I'll make it you know, but um, he really changed the outlet on how I look at sound because also, it was my first time ever being a co engineer. You know, like, I record all my music myself. And I mix it all myself, I master it all myself. And so it was my first time getting notes from somebody else. And I enjoy that because it's like, that's the first time I've ever had a 50/50 and a lot of the, like, basically everything he was saying was correct. And I changed it and it was like, so much better. And it's just having that knowledge that's, like, detached from you. I was like, man, like that gives me that perspective, because I'll show my friends songs. But like, you know, my friends aren't going to school to make songs sound better, you know what I'm saying, so it was an incredible experience for me that I definitely want to do again, track nine on Cardi Samba, Outro, Samba was just a beat. It was like, it was, he sent it to me. And I'm like, I don't want to rap on this. This is like, this is beautiful. And so I just called it an outro song because it's like the outro you know, it's like, and you know, the birds at the end of it married into the birds of the intro. So you could kind of just listen to it forever.

Sidd Ekkad 27:24
Oh, that's, that's an interesting detail. I didn't pick up on that actually

Cardigan 27:27
Actually got that from like, just idea. I got it from um, how he, on Saturation 1, like the intro starts with that weird sound. And then what is it? Team, at the end of Saturation 3 has that sound, so I kind of did that. While you know, like, trilogies are awesome, sequels are awesome, but like, you can't get better than that, you know, making it in rotation, having it, you could play it forever. I just think about that. Like, you know.

Sidd Ekkad 27:56
There's definitely like, sequencing for sure. Like, there's a lot to play with there for sure. Like, is there any, like, cool sequencing that you're planning for this, without spoiling too much obviously?

Cardigan 28:04
Um. Not quite. Not like cool specifics. But um, I really like it. I haven't, I think I posted the tracklist in its early stages, but the intro is like, called Dream Sequence, because it's an intro. And it's also me, like, there's a, there's a skit on it, or there's a clip of dialogue about like, on, on journaling, like about journaling, and how journaling as well, like it's the intro because it's like, this is like a journal, but also a dream sequence because like, this is my dream sequence. Like it's incredible how good the sequence is, like I made it so much like every song is focusing on a specific thing, but also you're taking it all at once. So there's not really like, much to spoil about it. It's not like anything special, but it's incredible. I love it.

Sidd Ekkad 29:00
That's great, that's awesome. Yeah, no, I'm just really excited to just like, take a look at finally, like hear it because it's like, it sounds like you have like such a, like clear vision. It's like it's not you're like not like throwing things at the wall. You're like, I'm ready. Like, I know exactly what I want to do.

Cardigan 29:15
So it took me a while to like, finalize all the things, but you know, and also with with finalizing, I don't really have, like, different versions of things. You know, like, if somebody's like, you know, has a different version of a song, I'll be like, Okay, here's this song, at this version. I was playing with this little bit, if I'll drop it, but like, I'm definitely like, I'm gunning for this, like, I won't have any different I'll delete the versions, you know, like, maybe have a different bar somewhere, but like, I'll delete the version of like, something that's different than if I come up with something.

Sidd Ekkad 29:51
Yeah. Um, I was actually kind of, to stay on the collaboration route. A little bit. Is there any collaboration uh, you mentioned like kind of getting like skits from like people that are close to you. Is there any other artists that you're collaborating with on this upcoming?

Cardigan 30:05
Yeah, Black Phoenix. My friend I met also met throught Kande, they go to state. He's like, such a big brother figure to me. And he's like, you know, the big homie and I've always wanted him on a song. We've had, we have collaborations in the vault that, you know, will probably be a part of his album rollout or something. But um, yeah, Black Phoenix is incredible. The one on like, my favorite rappers that I know in person, he just he really speaks to me. Just very black very, like, you know, that's like my big brother. And so every time I hear him rap, it's incredible. So when I got him on the song, and I got to sit in the studio with him and like, like, co produce his verse, and so I was like, I love like, a lot of things. I didn't have to be like, I didn't have to be like, Okay, do this. Instead, I was like, Yo, like, this will be crazy. You know, like, I was in there with him. But like, his verse is so good. It's like, it's what I really wanted on it. Like, it's like a late summer, like, cookout vibe, like this track, you know, I'm saying so it's like, that's the only feature I think I've ever had. You know, like, I'm a very solo person. Cardi Samba was, you know, something different, in terms of me being a rapper, producer in Samba only being a producer. To my knowledge, but um, yeah, in terms of rap, it's kind of only me, but I'm having them on the album was incredible. It's such a blessing, because like, you know, both of our rap paths are growing and like really high rates. And so just for me to have that now set in stone, it's just incredible.

Sidd Ekkad 31:50
That's great. Yeah. Would you ever consider like maybe like adding more like in future albums? Or would you say like

Cardigan 32:00
Yeah, I am, after this album, I'm definitely open a lot of collaborations. I just, I was telling a lot of people who wanted to work with me, like, let me get this, like, not out the way, you know what I'm saying, it sounds like negative. I was like, let me finish this. And I'll get back to you. Because I just really, I was focusing on me at the time. But after this album comes out, I'm definitely probably hitting the hitting the feature feature on a little bit maybe produce for some people that I really enjoy. Because you know, that product is out the way and so I can finally focus on like I said, I'm, I'm I hone in on a lot of things like some people will go and make a bunch of songs, I'll make like five or six and just like really work on those five or six for like, three months. And it's it's incredible how I even have the brainpower to do that. But um, yeah, I'm definitely open to working with a lot more people in the month of October, November.

Sidd Ekkad 32:51
Yeah. Yeah. That's great. That's awesome. Like, I think you've been more open like, and like you like feeling fulfilled with this album, would you say like, that's more like, you want to refine this like album concept to its best before you start moving on to other?

Cardigan 33:03
Yeah, um, if I was working with people while I was working on an album, I can definitely get distracted on other things. But I definitely was, I was telling people, I work with you after this, but like, not in a mean way. I was just like, letting them know, I'm focusing on something right now. And that focus has been dealt with. And you know, October 7, very excited.

Sidd Ekkad 33:24
Yeah, sometimes you just gotta lock in. Yeah.

Cardigan 33:26
Very much.

Sidd Ekkad 33:27
Yeah. And then now, we kind of went through your appeal for rapping but and your inspirations, but which of the albums you've worked on previously, do you like look back like fondly? That you like wish like that you kind of like, want to, like follow up on or maybe even like, try to like, expand on?

Cardigan 33:43
Definitely, definitely Khamadi, which is I Love You Madi is the sequel of it, which is, it's great. I can put those two together and just be like, blown away. Let's see. I made this album when I was 13. And I released it on my 14th birthday. It was called Verbal Conflict. It was just a little it's a little kid rapping over beats he made and it was like, it was when I look back at it. It was adorable. Sounded like shit. Mixing was really bad. But it's adorable. You know, I'm not. When someone asked me about it, or someone like looks like scrolls all the way down on my Soundcloud page and finds it, I'm like, oh, yeah, that's when I made it. Like, wow, like, a lot of people will scoff at things that they did a while ago. But me knowing that I had that vision and knew I was going to be rapping ever since I look at it as like a trophy. You know, like, I was sitting in my bedroom with a snowball microphone on Linux music making software making that you know, he's like, I haven't even came a long way yet. That was only four years ago and I'm 18 years old and I have so much in my future. But you know, I'm not ashamed to have that there. You know, I was making that five years ago. You know? Almost six.

That's crazy. Yeah, no, I think not being embarrassed that there's nothing to be embarrassed about that at all. Because like, that's your through line, like people gonna take where you started and then where you are now? I don't think there's any shame in that at all.

Yeah, for sure. Like, when I was in school, like, people would know me as a music guy, you know? Now if they see me in person, six, seven years later going, oh, you still making music? I'm like yeah, I could like say yeah. Like imagine that like you did, and then you were like, no, I don't do that anymore. Like, why not? You know, like, do what you love.

Sidd Ekkad 35:34
No shame at all. Yeah, I love I love the way you look at it. That's great. And now, what are some, uh, you kind of mentioned like, you've really enjoyed dabbling in that like barbecue, like laid back vibe. Is there any other like genres or sub genres you'd love to experiment in? That you think you would love? You have a vision for it all?

Cardigan 35:53
Yeah um, track three on the album is called Trust Fund. I put a jungle drum break in it. It is mainly based on Skittles by 454 which is like one of my favorite songs I've ever heard in my life. I put a drum break in it on a normal like on a normal rap beat, but like I put one of those jumpers in it. Very if there's, I think it happens three times in the song. I really want to do that more. And rap on those types of things more. That and I don't know, maybe experiment, it's hard to say that as like, I get asked that question by like, like, what the producer in mind and me because like, I'll think of something and just make it something completely different. Like I sample on this album a little bit. But um, all those samples are like you'd never hear I'm in what I made. So it's like, I don't even know what I'm wanting to dabble in. I'll dabble in something, you know, find something that made another thing.

Sidd Ekkad 37:02
Oh, yeah. It was just like, it was like, you'll inevitably come upon it. And then when you do, it'll like come to you. Yeah, it's very in the moment. Would you say?

Cardigan 37:11
Yeah, yeah, I can't think of the future that much.

Sidd Ekkad 37:15
That makes sense. You got to live in the moment. Enjoy. Enjoy what you have, like right now, today. Yeah. And then I had another question along those lines. Oh, we'll circle back to that. But um, how did you think your like writing has changed over time? Like your pen game for sure.

Cardigan 37:31
Man, that makes me think because the project, the first project that was talking about or like the little raps I was doing in middle school, like, I was really just rapping about whatever, like, I grabbed about Pokemon a lot, I rap about. Just I'd reference, I do a lot of references and punch lines back then. Because that's kind of all I knew. But like, with my, my flow and my pen game evolving. Like, I know what the people that listen to my music really want. And so um, with that being said, I really I start a verse and I just keep writing and like, I keep going, it's like, I surprise myself a lot. But like, rarely do I surprise myself every time I listen to the song. And that's like what I've been doing for a while, like I don't have any features out right now. Which is why when you asked me that question, again, grand scheme, I think of what is behind that verse. Because it's like, I haven't rapped on something that hasn't been mine before. You know, so what are something I can't tamper with. And so like, if I'm on a feature, I'll rap my ass off. Because I want to rap my ass off, but I'll like write the verse while I'm making the beat. And then I'll finish both and be like, that's incredible. And like some things I wouldn't like some lines and verses I would have never done if it wasn't for this change in the beat or me doing this in the beat. So I kind of look at it like that. Just being a rapper, producer being very versatile. I like rapping a lot. I've always been a big fan of words and poems ever since I was a little kid. Just me knowing when I started to finally remember songs when I was like a toddler, or 5, 6, 7 that kind of age. I was the one who remembered the words you know, like, my brother always like talks to me about it because he'll like or he'll talk to our friends about it and he'll be like, yeah, Kamadi like he would remember the words more than anything and like that's kind of what I still do like a song will come out in a week later. I like rap the entire verse. That's how I felt about when, when Family Ties came out, Oh, I knew it like immediately because I was just like, man, like, this is so good not to know. Like, it's almost drive up, push it to you like, I almost know that entire album based on logistics alone, like just me being like, wow.

Sidd Ekkad 40:13
Yeah, it's attention to the pen. I think like a lot of people these days focus on vibes, but I think pen is just important. It's like not gone anywhere.

Cardigan 40:23
It's also like I achieved which is, it's my favorite part about me like, I achieved those vibes with an incredible pen game. And it's I be rapping my ass off on like beats that like people would just do normal choruses on like, and my choruses will go into the verse and then my verse will go into the chorus, like, I really liked doing that. And I really like showing people that I could do both, but not to say that there's two things that I'm doing, like I do both is an incredible sentence. But like, there's more than two things, you know, I do it all.

Sidd Ekkad 40:57
That's, that's great. Now honestly, I think that confidence, that raw confidence is what you need going into this because like you need to be confident in your own vision. And I think you can't really find that in anybody else. That's good. So do but do you ever, like send your demos to your friends and be like, Hey, can you listen to this? Or like,

Cardigan 41:11
Yeah, it's like a it's like, sometimes it's a hey, is there anything? I, the only person I really have done like, Hey, isn't anything different I should do? Is Conde because like, I trust him a lot with like, my art, you know, he's, you know, been with me for my entire life and everything I do, he's whether I like it or not giving an opinion on it. So like a lot of things I take in stride when he says something, or if I asked him specifically, Hey, these are things I need to change on there. So let me know because you know, you care to my my craft. But others so every other time, you know, I'll go in my mom's room and be like, Hey, Mom, listen to this, and I'll turn it on. And she'll be like, that's incredible. I'm like, Thank you, and I'll just walk out. I love doing that. But I'll send my friend songs that I'm working on. A lot of my friends are like my biggest supporters. And it's like, nowadays, I have like actual fans who come to me and be like, Oh, you're Cardigan. Like, or like, I've seen you on Instagram or something. And I'd be like, Oh, thank you. Like, I really appreciate that. But like, all of my friends are like my biggest supporters. And that's something I really need. And I, I love, like, I love that.

Sidd Ekkad 42:23
Definitely, I think like having like, a great support system gives you the chance to like, and like it adds to your confidence. It's not your entire confidence, but it adds to it for sure. And that's, that's really awesome. I think like, surrounding yourself with people that really care about like, seeing you succeed is really important, especially as a rapper, I feel like having like, important like, people you look up to. Were there any like, mentor figures you had like, entering the like, rap world? Or was there?

Cardigan 42:50
The rap world? I mean, I would say my mom and dad, because you know, I wouldn't. I wouldn't have listened to rap if it wasn't for, you know, what they were choosing to play around their kid. But yeah, my mom is very hip hop mom. Like share, like her alias is just Hip Hop mom. Because you know, she's got a podcast where she talks with her and her friends about you know, current events, but also hip hop, and like her alias is Hip Hop mom. It's called straight to take. And my dad, he's a huge Hip Hop head, and like, when he started seeing me rap, he was like, Oh, nice, but like, even more recently, like, he's been in like, every show I've done. Just been there supporting me. And I've showed him like Cardisamba because like, that's his favorite so far. Like, he'll talk to me about songs I dropped like, two years ago on SoundCloud as a little thing, like he'll be like, and he's a DJ too. So he'll be playing my music at like, functions. And it's like, I love having that support. Like, you know, and it's like, I know that I'm getting that support. Because one, they're my parents, and two, that I'm really good. Like, you know, if I was bad, I'd still get support from my parents. But I love that it's genuine, you know?

Sidd Ekkad 44:02
That's great. Yeah. And so like, when you were like, growing up, like, like, what was like, your first, your first exposure to hip hop? Like, was it through them, like, what were some of the albums and some of the songs they were playing you that really like, stuck with you?

Cardigan 44:16
Graduation, and 808's And Heartbreak for sure. Because Graduation came out when I was four or five. That's kind of when you gain consciousness as a, as a child, you know, when you start paying attention to commercials, and you start playing video games, and actually start playing video games, other than just pressing a lot of buttons. So Graduation, 808s. I literally remember, like, watching Ye music videos on the TV on MTV. Like, that's how, like, those two albums. And then um, Lord Willin' by Clipse. For sure, just because you know, we was in Virginia Beach for a little bit, and that was the vibe, that was the vibe of my life. I was listening to Pusha T a lot, you know, as a kid. But now listen to Clipse and Pharrell. In my mind, probably, just looking back at it. Other albums, I would probably say, I don't know, I like the, my dad and my mom are really big fans of The Roots, and De La Soul, so I would probably say, Illadelph Halflife, or Illadelph life, or what, I don't remember what it's called, specifically, but I think it was one of the first Roots albums and then Things Fall Apart is really good, too. I like the parallel to, like, that in the book. And then De La Soul, pretty frequently, but that, those are the things that I was really listening to when I was a kid. A Tribe Called Quest. Fairmont. Like my mom was like, such a big hip hop head, and I'm glad she like, wanted me to listen to that type of stuff, you know?

Sidd Ekkad 45:55
Oh, that's awesome. And so, if say, like, in the future, you do have a kid or like, you find someone that like, wants to learn from you. And you give them five albums that you want to like, pass down, that you're like, this is like, the foundational text for.

Cardigan 46:09
For me?

Sidd Ekkad 46:10
Yeah.

Cardigan 46:10
Foundation for me?

Sidd Ekkad 46:12
Foundation for you. Or like, just foundation for like, getting into hip hop and like, being educated.

Cardigan 46:16
Um, getting into hip, those are two different- I like, incorporate, like, I'll try to think of the equilibrium of those, because I, those are two different vibes.

Sidd Ekkad 46:25
That's fair that's fair.

Cardigan 46:26
So first, I would probably have to say Late Registration by Ye. Because everything that he did wrong on college dropout he did right on that album. And then, me adding another Ye, dang. Like, Graduation for sure. And then the Life of Pierre 4 by Pierre Bourne. Um, just because that's like that album is just my life. Like, I've listened to that album more than I listen to a lot of things. Probably, if we're just keeping it hip hop, then like, probably Hell Hath No Fury by Clipse. Song after song after song after song, they were just like, I'm gonna do it. I'm just gonna rap. And then I guess, you know, I'm a really big Carti fan. So I'd probably show one of my kids Carti for sure, I'd just show him Die Lit because self titled was awesome. But Die Lit is very experimental. And he did a lot of things on that album, and Pierre did a lot of things on this album that like, haven't been really done before. And that set the precedent for a lot of hip hop production. Just Pierre did in general. So yeah, I love how all those are Ye, Pharrell, and Pierre. Like what I said earlier.

Sidd Ekkad 46:45
They're gonna go down like, as like, in history. So, they're definitely. That's a, that's a very like, solid list. I don't think I would have dis- I don't disagree with you on any of those, for sure. So kind of bringing it back to you. Um, so you kind of mentioned that you're having like a fan base now and you're growing. Have you ever performed live and what did you think of that energy?

Cardigan 48:06
Um, I've performed four times. Um, first one was at local, uh, it's not really a venue. It's just called the porch. Literally my brother's porch, like, my brother and their roommates. I performed first. I did like a 15 minute set, it was really cool, I sequenced a lot of things together. That was awesome. And I was really, really nervous. But then after that, I was just like, boom, I'm incredible. I've just known I've been an incredible performer because I'm not going to forget the words that I've sat there and mix and mastered for three months straight. Like, I'm not going to forget those words. So like, if I go up and perform any song from like, the last three albums, I mean, I'll just remember everything. Because I'm sitting there tweaking it every single day. But, yeah, I performed at the Lucky Tree recently. On Hillsborough street, they have every second and fourth Monday, they have an open mic, and I performed there, I did two songs, but it was really cool. It's invigorating. I did a 20 minute set at Ruckus, Ruckus pizza, the one in Mission Valley. It was incredible. I did really well, I had my support group with me, like, my mom and dad were in the back. And then a lot of my friends were there. So I had that. And it was a 20 minute set. So it was like, it was really long, but I really liked it. I like, I was sweating up, it was humid outside but like I would have been sweating regardless because I was like, rapping so hard and like, my breath control has gotten really good. So yeah, there's, there's, I performed at- I also performed at this, like, vintage market called the Outlaw Market. I did like three little songs. It was nice though, I got really good reception from all four performances, and I, in the future I just, I really want to perform. I'm really excited for the, you know, the end of this year, next year, because like, I'm going to be performing like, a lot, and I like, I, I'm a really good performer already. So I get a lot of compliments on my stage presence, I get a lot of compliments on, like, things that I add to the songs that aren't in the actual, like, wax songs, you know. And so, I just want to perform all, it's so fun. It's awesome. And it just gives me that rush. I go and I click into rap mode. I just rap my ass off.

Sidd Ekkad 50:22
Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, about the stage presence is really important because like, you can have, like, some of the best, like, lyrics and like, songs ever, but then like, just not knowing how to conduct yourself. I feel like that's really, like, really knowing how to, like, go about it. Is there like, any like, like, going forward? Like, if you were to like, have a tour? Like, how would you want to like, conduct yourself? Like, what would be like, kind of like, the way you would organize, like, the concert in a way to like, kind of like,

Cardigan 50:44
I don't know, but I definitely would do a different setlist every time. I would do a different setlist every time. And I would also, probably, if it's even possible, I wouldn't have an opener. But if it wasn't possible, I'd go up there and do a DJ set. And then, and then performed. Because I'm just, I'm the main person, like, you know, if I have somebody I want to go on tour, that's great, like, but I kinda just want to perform for the whole time. You know, like, I have more than an hour and a half of music and I want to like, show people what I do, you know, especially in the future, when I do, and if I do end up touring. Yeah, um, definitely want to change the setlist up because you know, I'll go to a concert that's like, eight days down the tour list. And I'll like, see the setlist and I'm like, damn, I got spoiled, because I wanted to see it live. I'm a really big concert fan. So just, being in the crowd, and then also being on the stage with knowing both. It's like, it's incredible to me. So um, haven't gotten on the stage quite yet. But when I do, I'm gonna rock that shit. You know, like, and I'm gonna change it up, I'm gonna sequence it the way I want to because I, I made everything, you know, like, some people don't have the rights to their stuff, you know, like, they can't play some things, they can't. Some people curate it for them. Like, I just can't wait to just do it, because I do it myself.

Sidd Ekkad 52:23
Everything comes from you, it's perfect.

Cardigan 52:25
I get a lot of, this, I've completely just forgot in my mind. But in terms of stuff, like, being a soloist, I get a lot of inspiration from JPEG Mafia, because he's,

Sidd Ekkad 52:36
It's all him.

Cardigan 52:37
It's all him, like, that's one of my main inspirations for just making music in general. And also what he raps about, but, how he conducts himself. And how he's like, like, he'll be at a concert and he'll be like, alright guys, next song, and he'll go to his computer and click it and then come back and start performing it. Like that's something I love. Him being a soloist and him being really proud of that, him owning all those masters. That's like my favorite thing ever.

Sidd Ekkad 53:03
I know, Peggy is insane. I think what I love about him is how like, he is just raw. He's him and like, he's really gotten a following just because it's him. Like, it's all him like, and everybody like, collabs with him just wants that out of him. They don't, they don't try to contort him or fit him into a place where he doesn't belong. It's just all.

Cardigan 53:23
Yeah.

Sidd Ekkad 53:24
Which is great. And I think you taking that inspiration is like, really important because I think like, you hear too much about like, rappers these days, not like, being able to do certain things or having rights issues. And then you actually being able to, like, fully say, this is my product, and I get to decide what to do with it. That's really important. And I think a lot of people should start like, having ownership of their own work. I think that's very important.

Cardigan 53:46
For sure.

Sidd Ekkad 53:47
Yeah, so I think- oh, yeah, just two more questions. Which song did you record- write, record, the fastest, like, which one was- you usually refine it? You were emphasizing that a lot earlier, but which one was just like, I just need to get this down on paper and I, you just, the words just came to you.

Cardigan 54:03
Is this like, any song like, recently, or the one that, on the album? Or like, in general?

Sidd Ekkad 54:08
Uh, I would say, keep like, Let's do recent.

Cardigan 54:11
Okay, um, I was just actually, I was just talking to my best friend Megan about how a song isn't really finished until I turn it in. And so like, I would probably say writing wise, probably, Cardi Flexing on Cardi Samba because I made that beat pretty quickly. And then I wrote that all in that one sitting, and I didn't like, sit on it or anything, because it was really raw. And I didn't want to end the album with that. And so like, I put that, and then like, I let the album breathe and ride out on the outro track because like, that was, if I'm being honest, way too raw for me, you know, like, it was so raw that I had to like, let it sit, you know, I'm saying like, let it ride out so just not even looking at the speed there, like I wrote it really quick because I was super hungry on that song. So that that one kind of soared by but um, 3 Musketeers from Khamadi I wrote very quickly because it was kind of a freestyle song, I put, like, the beat's really cute. It was like, it was, I was literally sitting there. I didn't, I don't think I had the verse written down. I was sitting there, I was saying something and then clicking it, punching myself in again. That's it. So, probably 3 Musketeers, probably my fastest song ever made.

Sidd Ekkad 55:43
That's, that's awesome. Yeah no, just putting it all out there. Like, I can't even begin to imagine how to like, freestyle or even get like those words coming to you. But like, just kind of getting that psychology is like, interesting. Yeah. And then, for my last question, just, do you have like, a formula for your song structure? And have you like, bent it before it? And how have you like, kind of like, kept with it?

Cardigan 56:04
I don't have a formula. I don't. I can't, I literally can't say I do. Because if I did, I'd just be lying. So I definitely don't. Um, oh, I'll have a, I'll have a verse written down, I'll make a beat for it. Or I'll make a verse for a beat, you know, I just don't have a formula. I don't follow any guidelines or anything. I normally start with the sample just to see what the drum should sound like. But sometimes I start with the drums and put the sample in it. You know? It all depends on how I'm feeling.

Sidd Ekkad 56:38
And what is like, the wildest thing you've ever sampled? Like, like, what is something that like-

Cardigan 56:43
See, if I said that, and in two months I get to be a really popular artist, they're gonna take the song down.

Sidd Ekkad 56:50
Oh, you're right you're right.

Cardigan 56:51
I have a really really good one on this album. That I'm just not gonna say.

Sidd Ekkad 56:56
All right, well, I can't wait to hear it. I'll let you know if, uh, I'll ask you in private, I'll maybe like ask you.

Cardigan 57:00
For sure.

Sidd Ekkad 57:01
But um yeah, no, I think that's all the questions I have. But, just plug anything that's coming up. I know you got that big LP coming up. But plug anything else?

Cardigan 57:11
Well, @cardigan10x on Instagram. Cardigan everywhere, Apple Music, Spotify. "I Love You Madi", October 7. Thank you for having me.

Sidd Ekkad 57:22
Of course. Yeah, this is, it was great to finally be able to talk to you and like, get like, all this really cool insight. I'm really looking forward to the album and I can't wait for everyone else to take a look at it too. Yeah, I can't wait to see where all you go from here. And yep, this is Sidd Ekkad with WKNC and have a great day.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai