Off the Record

Valerie Gorham 0:00
Hello to all of our listeners. This is WKNC Off the record podcast. I'm Valerie, and I interviewed Max from a band called lawn enforcement. Lawn enforcement is a Wilmington based grunge rock three piece band. Max masters, mixes, produces everything himself. They are completely self managed. So definitely give them a listen. Their music is great. And here's the interview. First of all, how are you doing? Good? How are you I'm great. Can you just tell me a little bit about lawn enforcement and introduce yourself for

Max 0:33
sure. My name is Max age. I'm from Wilmington, North Carolina, and I'm the singer and guitarist for law enforcement. It's a grungy alternative rock band, but we don't really fall under any genres very much based off what we're currently inspired by, whatever we're currently feeling. Started out in 2021 when I lived in Tennessee, and then I only lived out there for a year, just kind of seeing what it was like out there, and then move back here, and then we've just been going strong ever since we recorded music in one spot. Try to make physical media, like cassettes and creedies and T shirts, and we try to make that a big part of our thing. And that's no so that was just a random I moved out there for a year just to try it out and be near Nashville. I lived in Franklin, and that's how the band started. We were just working out of the studio, and that's where we lived in. This the name basically comes from. We lived in like a two acre plot of land, and the landlords had to take care of the lawn mowing and all that stuff. And so we had to buy this mower, and it's like a whole thing, and that's kind of where the name derives from. Was because was because it was like, you know, who's gonna mow the lawn? No one ever really wanted to, because it was like a three hour job. But it was where the name came from, actually. And then, I'm from Wilmington, originally, North Carolina, North Carolina in general. I was born over towards hickory. Yeah, I'll mention the other band mates too real quick. It's just another drummer, Jackson degrafo. He's a student at UNC W we were kind of on hiatus in 2022 and I had in our bio looking for a drummer, and that's how we came across Jackson. And he's just kind of split in our DMS, and he's been the greatest. He is just so awesome. And then Dawson Newman as our bass player, and he's my longtime friend. We've been friends since like first grade.

Valerie Gorham 2:25
Cool. Okay, so you just released this month, I think, an album, right, right?

Max 2:30
So that was lamb a little over a week ago. Lamb, yeah, it's a seven song album.

Valerie Gorham 2:38
I was listening to it this week, and I was just hoping you could tell us about the album. What's your favorite song? Maybe, like, how did you write it? All that kind of thing. Yeah,

Max 2:47
I'd love to. So basically, it's an assortment of songs that we've written over the last few years, along with one song that I wrote when I was at school in Boston. So I went to college at Berklee College of Music, and we had a band called local boy with my friends and my roommate, and one of our songs was actually in my sleep, and that was something I wrote and brought to the band and just kept with me for six years now. So that's the one kind of outlier that I finally felt like it had its place. That's the third song, I believe. And then everything else we wrote, I kind of write the songs with the part, just like my parts, vocal, guitar, and then I bring it to the band, and we just kind of Hash it out in a practice session. And that's how the songs get fully written, and that's how the other songs were made, basically. And we record everything in my bedroom, just on logic on my computer, and I mix and master all the songs, and that's basically how it was made and written. And then I'd say my favorite is either the first one all to me or the second 1y, GK, I think all to me is probably my favorite. It is not necessary. I don't really write specifically about things, but it just connects with me the most, and I like how it sounds out of the others more I believe, which is why I put it first. But I'm pretty happy with how it came out. We've been working on it, mainly, I have since June. How we do it is Jackson records the drum, and I'll kind of play with him, just so he knows his place. And then I'll go over and basically do everything. I'm pretty picky. And I'll do the bass parts and stuff, and then the guitar, and I'll kind of layer everything together, and then Dawson sings on frozen, and he wrote the lyrics for that song. And so when he has his parts, he'll come in, but I'm very just, I sit down and I crank it all out, and then the mixing and mastering is what takes weeks, because I'm like, back. Forth. Just make a mix master it. Go to the car. Oh, kick drums too loud. Go back to the room, make another mix. Oh, now it's too quiet. Shit that just doesn't matter. I'll just spend weeks, you know, being concerned about but some people do. I do care about the people that really pay attention, and that's what it's for, is people that are going to notice that we've grown, because we've recorded our own stuff since pretty early on, and you can tell that we've come a long way. You know, things are a lot more clear. I think the along with, like, the message of everything, just a vibe, I feel like it's all starts to come into fruition a little more over time. And it's cool, because it is a slow, gradual process of just trying to meet the right bands to play with, trying to, you know, make sure we're making music we like that also hopefully connect with people. And on top of that, you know, struggling with social media and reaching people, you know, not physically, because I think we're better at just going places and talking to people, and, you know, that's way more fun anyway. So we try to be more like that than on the other side of things. But recently, with the whole album coming out and putting all that work into it, I feel like social media is such an important thing when you have something like that that you need to share. So that's kind of our next step, is to figure out how to get a good presence out there and get people to know who we are. Because I think that's what every band wants, for anyone

Valerie Gorham 6:32
who's just tuning in with us on the radio. This is WKNC Off the record podcast. I'm Valerie, and I'm interviewing Max from a band called law enforcement, which is a Wilmington based grunge rock three piece. Yeah, so I was actually, I'm glad that you talked about your mixing and mastering, because I have tried to do that in the past. Like, I've tried to make some songs in the past, and it it's very difficult, yeah? Like, the whole, like, production part of everything. So how long have you been, like, learning how to do that.

Max 7:00
So that's my favorite thing to do. I think I almost like it more than shows, just crafting a song, being able to get in the car and listen to it, especially, like years later, that's like the craziest things when you're listening to yourself, like I'm very much I care about capturing like memories. I guess because I'm big on I'm not even a photographer, but on the road and stuff, I'm always taking pictures, just because I don't want these things to get lost in time, you know, especially just for me personally, it's almost just for myself at the end of the day. And so I've been recording for since I was about 1516, and that just started out with Garage Band on my phone, you know, making drum tricks, and then with the Apple headphones, recording guitar parts. And so that's where you learn. I learned about timing and just the very rudimentary like stop, play, record, that kind of thing. And then I was lucky enough to go to Berkeley, and I had friends from high school kind of get me up to the point where I had the you know, nerve to audition anyway. And so being able to go there, obviously, even just the basic classes of engineering and music production showed me so much. And then my roommate was just a incredible producer, like, just knew everything, had all the plugins, and that was pretty like, just luck of the draw. Had all these things around me at once, you know? And which was great, because I had felt like I was so in the dark before that point, which is why I wanted to go to school, was just to, like, for that exact reason, like to just actually learn and, you know, obviously network. But at that point, at that age, I really wasn't worried about networking. I just, I was pretty naive with it. I just wanted to genuinely get better. And, you know, 1718, so I was still like, I want to get famous and be huge. And I've definitely gotten a lot more humble than that now one of actually, like, it's all it's way more about connecting and growing and meeting people. Because, um, I just record a lot of bands in town, mainly close friends, and then people coming to the NC W starting band to try to lend a hand to them, you know, with really cheap rates, and just so they can get your, you know, the ideas out. Because that's really what's important when you're just starting, you know, doing your first couple songs, I try to get people in here with the idea that, you know, whatever happens, happens. It's cheap, it's gonna be fun. Don't sweat it, because usually that's going to get the best results. And doing so always turns around and helps lawn enforcement. You know, once I record another band, it's like, first of all, I can take the money buy a new microphone, and then I take all the things I did during that session and be like, Oh, that mic worked well on that guitar. Or and this works really well here. That would work perfect for our song here. So a lot of, I'd say, just luck, but also like accepting the opportunities given, and like trying to make the most of them. So that's kind of where, how we've gotten where we are is, but kind of, I like making bad recordings until we stop. Yeah, bad just in our opinion, so we even have songs we're like, we'll definitely be doing remastering and like stuff for our earlier songs, because they just aren't even really mastered. They're almost just demos. So that is, that's kind of part of what I like about those being able to see where a band has taken things just in, like, you know, it's always short, like, four years now, it's always been doing, and it feels like way longer than that. All right,

Valerie Gorham 10:48
well, you said, okay, so you went to college. Like, did you like major in, like, a musical major?

Max 10:54
Yeah. So Berkeley, it's not connected to, like, California, Berkeley, it's B, E, R, K, L, E, E, and it's mainly a music college. And I studied songwriting and production for a little bit, and then just graduated online with kind of like a music studies overview degree, because I went and then COVID hit, and so I had to learn in 2020, and so after that, it was all way too expensive, so I couldn't finish in person. But while I was there, I think that that was kind of the most important moment for me, learning how to play with a band and what it felt like to play with, not even just play with really talented people, but people that knew how to play together, and I think, you know, USC local shows a lot of the time. The problem is not that the bands don't have the skill. If they don't have the experience. No one told them, Hey, you don't have to play throughout the entire song. You can, like, breathe and do this that I think I took a lot of that home with me, and I've been able to, like, it helps me, you know, pick the right friends and, like, the right people to work with, and like, know how to put on a good show, mainly, you know. So I'm really, you know, lucky to be able to go there have that even just two years out of the four that I was supposed to have. You know, it was very helpful. And where I'm at,

Valerie Gorham 12:22
for anyone who's just tuning in with us on the radio, this is WKNC Off the record podcast. I'm Valerie, and I'm interviewing Max from a band called law enforcement, which is a Wilmington based grunge rock three piece. Did they teach you like, like to sing there, or you had like, like, formal vocal training, the vocals on your music, it seems very difficult. Oh, wow, thank you. Yeah, because you're there's, like, a

Max 12:45
lot of hard for me. It doesn't come easy. I definitely was not a vocal major. I majored in guitar. That was my, like, principal instrument, and singing definitely came last in my music adventures, like, I started out with just guitar, and then it started out making kind of beats, and I would add vocals, mainly, like harmonies and like ooze and stuff like that. And then it was like songs. But there was a solid four years between, like 2014 and 2017 I would not sing for anybody, like there was no way I was going to show a song with my voice on it, or show me singing. And then I kind of started a band that was very much like law enforcement, or it was me a bassist and a drummer and I had the same amp and setup, and that's basically what law enforcement started, as we just didn't have the name, and it was different members, just my high school buddies, whole vibe kind of simple while also being really loud. Yeah.

Valerie Gorham 13:47
So speaking of loud, speaking of loud, um, I was wondering, do you guys, when you write your songs, do you write them while keeping in mind like how it's going to sound live? Because I feel like the type of music you make is very much like the kind of music you want to go listen to at in like a show,

Max 14:05
right? So it started out as, like a way of me doing my solo stuff. So I used to have a project called Western media, which is basically just my solo project. And the drummer that I we started out with was so heavy and, like, loud that I couldn't really compete. And so I kind of jokingly started writing, like these alternative rock songs, like almost trying to joke around, and then it felt really good. So that's really like how it all started. And half the songs I'll write acoustic, which is funny, but it's not like I'm writing acoustic thinking is an acoustic song. I'm writing with a thought that, you know, the speed is going to be up and it's going to be loud, and there's these parts that it's easy to write on an acoustic because it's like half a percussion instrument with this. Dreams, and just the way the wood is and it's hollow, so you can kind of slap it, and I can kind of play the snare part, and then the baseline is always basically very similar already. So that's always kind of just, it all comes around really easily. There's no thought like all the words are the hardest part, for sure, because, like, we'll get the music down in like, one hour cops, like, we'll, if the song has the two parts or three parts, we'll sit there right at the bridge, and then it basically takes us. We don't even have to really talk. We just play it and it's there, and it's kind of great. And I feel like very cool thing that we're not really able to show people and or even, you know, because no one ever even really asked, but I've never seen people be able to just like, you know, we get together. Haven't seen each other in a week or two. Hey, I wrote this new song. Here it is, and before I even, like, show it to him, we're kind of just playing it, you know, I mean, because it's the simplicity of it makes everything kind of fall together. So there's no like, there's no question, like, hey, what time signature is this then? Or anything. Sometimes we get we try to get sciencey and mathy, but you know, for the most part, if it's easy to play, it's easy to, you know, perform, and then it's easy to make the show really fun, so we try to keep that, while also trying to push ourselves and play stuff that isn't always, you know, super easy to play, but fun. You know, the goal is to just be fun and have the emotion.

Valerie Gorham 16:35
So you guys generally start with like the melody or like words and everything, almost

Max 16:40
every time chords, first chords and whatever, like main riff, that's always the very first thing, and then it's usually melody, and then we and this is usually by myself. This is kind of in the acoustic setting. So I'll do the chords, add the melody, and then I'll try to write like the B sections of the chorus, and then see and mainly just try to make it flow into something, and then I will bring it to them. And then by that point, it's basically done. The only thing finished is to record it, and that's when lyrics get finalized and stuff like that. And at shows, sometimes I won't even write lyrics. I'll mumble at shows until I really because sometimes you're like, at a show, and you can be mad about something, and I'll, like, literally just be like, singing that to the crowd, like whatever is like in the moment, like I was saying about like a sound guy before, because he was like, a dick to me before that, or something like that. And it's like, no one knows what you're talking about. So it's like, a perfect way to get your anger out. And then you have an idea after the set to, like, finish the song, write the lyrics based off that. That's, you know, I'd say 10% of the time. Honestly, it's not something we do all the time, but, and then, other than that, very random, lyric wise, and then band wise, yeah, it's just, they just get it, you know, you just bring it to him. Go Dawson the chords, and he just plays the right notes on bass. And then Jackson usually gets the beat. There's only a couple times where we get into it, and I have to, kind of like, walking through a weird part that I have in my head that I'm not really explaining well. And that's the only time we're, like, really sitting down talking about a song, you know? Yeah, other than that, everything kind of just happened. And everyone, they're all very positive. So no one ever comes to me and they're like, We need to write something like this or like, they're always just happy with it. So pretty lucky to have those too. So

Valerie Gorham 18:43
it's usually you making the lyrics and do your bandmates,

Max 18:49
yeah, so not with, like, my songs. It's like, I'll be like, What can I say here that's cooler than that? Or I'll be like, do y'all think this is cool? And they'll tell me yes or no. But then Dawson does have, like, his own song frozen. He wrote the lyrics, and he sings on that one, and it's awesome. The bass player again. And then Jackson writes really good lyrics. He's we just haven't really put them to the songs yet, but I think that's kind of what we're going to start doing with the next collection. Is he's got some things he wants to get out, and we'll probably just start trying to put music to those, because that's something we haven't really done. So we'll definitely get a different result out of that. You know, lyrics first is very much a not common thing for me. So

Valerie Gorham 19:34
your two other band mates are they also from North Carolina,

Max 19:38
so Dawson and I, I've been in Wilmington for what is it now? I think it's like 15 years or something. And then Dawson's born here. He's been here his whole life, and we grew up together. And then Jackson, the drummer, he is from Massachusetts. Actually, he's from way out. So

Valerie Gorham 19:57
you guys being from North Carolina. How do you think that that's like, influenced your like, musical journey? Well,

Max 20:04
I think the biggest thing is we're in a college town, and we're also in kind of a beach where people surf and skate and do art, and so we're all kind of kind of a almost like a West Coast kind of vibe, where we are in Wilmington and wrestle beach. So that makes it easy to kind of be in a band. And it's not weird, you know? It's like, it's a fun thing. People come out to the shows, and it works out the college makes it cool to, you know, we we're kind of fresh out of that now, I'm 24 so I'm, like, right past that age, but there's still cool bands coming in, and then there's also just cool bands in general, in Wilmington. But let alone Wilmington, you have Scarlet and Greensboro, which I think are just so underrated, they just have really good musicians and songwriters, and I think there's going to be a lot coming out of there in the future too, just because the crowd there just so friendly and love music more than anything I've seen. I think Wilmington struggles a little bit being such a drinking bar, kind of seeing people go out for the you know, the booze more than the music, which is fine. We want people to just have a good time and do what they want to do. But there's not if it was just an all ages no drinking show, not going to be like a 21 plus. So at this bar, Reggie's with, you know, $5 cover, like the different thing out here, but North Carolina in general is just a good place to be, because you got funk, you got metal, you got scream, oh, but then you got jam bands, and you have blues, and you have this, you know, easy pop rock, and then you got techno and DJs, and you literally everything you can think of is in this one state which is insane. And we can. We can fit a lot of those things, because we'll get asked to play, you know, frat parties and stuff, and it's like all right time to shift shape shift a little bit, and we'll learn covers, and especially if they're paying we don't want to show up and just play originals. They don't know we want to be nice and leave a good impression on basically anybody, because we don't want to discriminate, even if you know you're not like us necessarily, like, you know, we're all kind of from like a skater, type of friend group, music, skating, no one really knowing what they're doing with their lives yet. Yeah, where we're at, and it's awesome at the same time, it's a very like, useful, cool place to be. And it's cool meeting people like that that just have the passion, whether it's photography or clothes or music, you know, what

Valerie Gorham 22:53
kind of covers Do you guys like to play and what which ones are your favorites? And which ones get like you get like requests? Funny

Max 22:59
enough. Luckily, when we're in Wilmington, people request originals, which is a new thing. So that's been very, very humbling and cool. But you know that we get the free bird here now and then. So we've learned Free Bird front to back, and we pull that out sometimes, and that's pretty fun, going from like a metal song to playing free bird. It's kind of a joke, but it's a funny joke that actually, I feel like we do pretty well. So I it's like, I think it's pretty cool. And then, because I thought I would hate it, but we played it, and I was like, that was way too fun. Like, we can't believe we just played Free Bird. And it was like, kind of awesome, but um, so that's a good one. We like doing stuff that we're inspired by. So dinosaur Junior, we've done some songs we used to do, where's my mind by the Pixies. Just like stuff that everybody will know. Because I feel like there's two ways to do covers. You do something everybody knows, so you kind of start connecting with them, and then you do stuff that nobody knows, that you think they should know. So that way kind of putting something on like, that's what I loved about nirvana. And Kurt Cobain is playing like songs by the vaselines, and him talking about Daniel Johnston. I think that's so much cooler than when people are just hyping up somebody that's already just at the highest point. You can be like people that are just raving over Taylor Swift and Tyler, The Creator, like, yeah, they're, they could have good music, but it's like, I'm very much about, like, there's so many artists in the dark that blow these giant like, I mean, they're corporations at this point. You know, you talk about even bands like Metallica as much as I like Metallica. Like, they're straight up corporations that overshadow millions of small artists that are doing things that are new and could have a lot of potential to share, but they get thrown in the dark. You know, I'm very much adamant about figuring out how to make that better for people and artists that do. Her. But right now, I kind of have to figure it out myself first and get out there somehow. But this is a great way to so like, when someone reaches out to ask for this kind of stuff, I get really excited, because I do have a lot to yap about

Valerie Gorham 25:15
for anyone who's just tuning in with us on the radio, this is WKNC Off the record podcast. I'm Valerie, and I'm interviewing Max from a band called law enforcement, which is a Wilmington based grunge rock three piece. I just was wondering, like, this genre that you do, which is pretty like grungy, is that like something you've always listened to? And because when I was listening to it, I was like, it really reminded me of like, you know, like at the end of the Spider Man movies with Toby McGuire, like the credit music, you know, it was reminding me of that. I was like, I felt like it was like 2010 or eight or something like

Max 25:56
that. Like, it's on the money. I mean, it's like, it's easiest to just name bands, because people like, be like, Oh, I like your song, Mario. And I'm like, oh, go listen to this song. And it's like, that was like, you know, it's like, almost a different band, but it's always same drummer. It's always gonna be my voice through basically the same amp. So it can't really get that far away from the sound. You know, we're always using the same pedals. It's like, it's basically what we can do is what we got. And we don't want to be a jam band or a hardcore band or a punk band. It's fun for people to try and like, super heaven. And then I grew up on Nirvana, so that's just like, it's always gonna be, I just want to be Kurt Cobain, like that is just not actually, but that's like the root of it all was, like, I just loved everything about it, getting into, like, you know, the deep cuts, and then realizing that Kurt had this whole, like, solo creepy album, and like, that was like the beginning, you know, that was me getting into a dick for the first time, and then it broke out into, like, high Seagull and all these psych rock bands from 2010 and you can kind of hear those influences on Dawson song frozen, because that One was very much influenced by fuzz and the OCS and those kind of bands. So we it's very all across the board, just garage rock, grunge rock, psychedelic rock, whatever rock you felt between like the 90s and 2000 10s, yeah. But we try to figure out how to keep it new, which I feel like, I try not to worry about too much, because it is new. We're new, man, you know, it's now. So that's the only way I can think about it, you know, yeah, I always want to push us farther, but at the same time, sometimes it's cool to keep it simple and not think too much, and that's kind of why we have such a wide variety of songs. I think people do like that. You know, when they start diving into our stuff, do you get to play a lot of shows? Yeah. I mean, we've sold out two shows this year already, not comment. And I think they're also pretty lucky situations where we've made the right friends, and we're in a college town and yada yada, but we're stoked to be able to, like, have those opportunities. And I think it is just you're in a band that's niche, you just have to, like, hustle hard. I think I've personally put in some of that work where we've gotten to open up for, you know, some cool bands and been given cool opportunities. And like I said, we kind of can fit, you know, I can kind of fake it and ask certain bands, like, Hey, we're like, you listen to this song. And then another band. I can be like, you know, more on the soft side, be like, here's this song. So gives us a chance to get in front of different demographics. Like, in the same year, we played for, you know, a crowd of all colored hair and those piercings and black clothes. And then we played for, like, totally like country crowd, like all Vineyard Vines, khaki pants, like we we can go both ways. I definitely prefer the hardcore. Like punk stuff, obviously, but we're open to whoever wants us to play. If you ask us to play, we will come play. Do

Valerie Gorham 29:34
you have, like, long term goals with this band, like, like, any specific places you want to go or artistic projects that you want to make.

Max 29:44
Yeah, so I think I definitely struggle with a lot of internal things when it comes to, like, Is this legit, you know, is this something I should keep doing through my 30s? You know, I'm 24 Out of each five. So it gets a little scary, and I just because of how much time I've put in and how much I do care about it, and I think my way of thinking is I just am going to keep doing it, and as long as it's fun and if it gets rough, I don't need to take it that seriously, and that's okay, if people like the music, I'm always going to be around. I have good relationship with the band until, like, I don't think we'll ever come to a point where we're like, the band is done, you know, but I don't know. We don't have a five year plan. We don't even have a plan for the next year. You know, this album was tiring enough, and getting this tour booked. I mean, literally, just seven shows took me for a whirl, just in my head. You know, it's just very hard to get bands together and reach out to venues and do all that, and it's also just hard to find people that can help you with that. It's just a struggle. But I love doing it, and it is just an exhausting thing, which is why I just think, you know, whatever happens, happens, I think the band will stay together, and we'll always be making music and stuff. If opportunities come our way, we'll grab on to them. But, um, I also have a lot of solo project stuff that I've been working on. So there's kind of a back and forth, you know, spend six months on the band, and then three months on myself, and then, you know, back and

Valerie Gorham 31:29
forth like that. So you guys don't have, like, a management team or anything.

Max 31:33
No, it's literally like, I I do everything I got. It's all just me, and then my two boys tag along and are awesome, and they're just a good vibe with me on the road and practice. They're always on time. It's a three person unit, and my girlfriend, Riley, helps with art and merch. So I guess it's a four person unit, and that's it.

Valerie Gorham 31:59
Did she make the album cover?

Max 32:03
Yeah, she hand drew the lamb. It's really cute. She's awesome. She does the best stuff. She's done that. And then a couple other things for us in the label suck Rock Records, which is kind of just a collective of Wilmington bands and NC band stuff like that. So yeah, we got the album out on Spotify and YouTube and Apple Music. I have CDs and cassettes. If you want one, you can reach out to me. And we have social media. Our username is law enforcement band, and a website which is also law enforcement band.com, and all our info is going to be on that website, you can find anything you need. And that's that's basically it.

Valerie Gorham 32:52
And is there just anything else that you would like to share or say, yeah, just

Max 32:56
go to local shows and support bands and star bands. Check out duck Rock Records for any Wilmington related shows you ever looking to come see something. We got a lot of really good bands out here, and that's

Valerie Gorham 33:12
probably all I got to say. So that was my interview with lawn enforcement. Once again, I'm Valerie, and this has been WKNC Off the record podcast. See you next time, and have A great rest of your day.

Unknown Speaker 33:22
You

Transcribed by https://otter.ai