Off the Record

Plover 0:00
What's up everyone you're listening to WKNC 8.1 FM Raleigh. We are a student run nonprofit radio station based outside of based out of North Carolina State University. I'm clover and this is off the record here with me today is Max Gowan. How are you doing?

Max Gowan 0:14
I'm good. Yeah. Good to be here.

Plover 0:16
Awesome. I'm just out of curiosity. What is it Gowan or Gowan. And I want to make sure I get that right.

Max Gowan 0:21
Yeah, no, it's, it's hard to tell from the stalling it's Gowan. It rhymes with like Chow and like, awesome.

Plover 0:30
So, real quick, who are you? Where are you from? Kind of what's the lowdown?

Max Gowan 0:37
Yeah, I'm a musician. Based in Raleigh. I was also born and raised in Raleigh. And but I went to college in DC for about four years. But other than that, I've lived in Raleigh pretty much my whole life. So yeah, that's me.

Plover 0:51
Awesome. So you mentioned you're a musician I have you kind of get started into that. What was that like during college, like you mentioned, or just kind of organic.

Max Gowan 1:00
It was pretty early. I started playing guitar when I was, I want to say eight years old. My dad started teaching me and then I kind of like, co opted his, his teacher slowly started taking lessons from my dad's guitar teacher. And I was like, really big into like, metal music and like punk. And like, you know, middle school time, like I actually played in a death metal band. And we played in the Pour House when I was in eighth grade. That was my first like, bar show. But yeah, so I've been playing music for a long time that the music that I make now under my name is a project that I basically started at the end of high school, just home recording pretty much all the parts myself and kind of like teaching myself how to do the whole recording process. So I've been doing that for like seven years now.

Plover 1:50
Nice. Nice. So um, I mentioned you were kind of a big fan of punk and metal. Is there any kind of that like ethos in your current music?

Max Gowan 2:00
I'm sure there is like I'm sure it makes its way into it. I feel like technically, I guess you could call my music singer songwriter, but it's like very focused on instrumentals. Like I'm big into riffs if you will, and things like that. So. So yeah, it's It's definitely like, I feel like the focus on instrumentals and like trying to make something compelling. instrumentally probably comes from my love of metal instrumentals because they're usually really really crazy.

Plover 2:30
For sure. Yeah. I definitely like pianos as well in your in your your music as well. It's a really cool like range that you've kind of been having in terms of the instruments

Max Gowan 2:42
sorry, the phone cut out there a little bit with you.

Plover 2:44
Yeah, just remember, I heard some pianos in there some various instruments that was really cool to have like a nice like range. Yeah, even for a quote unquote singer songwriter record. There's a lot going on there, which is really cool.

Max Gowan 2:56
Yeah, thanks. I do not know how to play piano but I have enough like, I can kind of like plunk something out. If I haven't given enough takes. I like to throw as many textures in as I as I can, at least for what fits the song ideally.

Plover 3:12
All again, speaking of your music, you have a new album out of course called Glossolalia. This is kind of feels like a very personal album. So how was the kind of recording process for that for you?

Max Gowan 3:25
Yes, so the recording process is pretty much the same as as what I've done. Ever since I started home recording, which is I you know, kind of try to lay down a foundation for all the songs myself was like guitar, bass and drums. And I actually had more collaborators on this than I normally do. Like, there's a lot of great musicians on it. My good friend Caroline, her project called infinity crush, she was also based in Raleigh. So she played like strings and French horn on some songs. My friend Travis played drums on a song, my friend Chris played drums on a song. So there's definitely more collaboration going on. But I feel like lyrically this is definitely a bit more of a personal record. For me, there's still some, like, you know, character stories and things that are not necessarily autobiographical. But there's also some songs that are a little more vulnerable than I'm used to being probably so that was a, that was a bit of a way for me to branch out this time, I think,

Plover 4:27
For sure. A lot of artists I talked to who kind of are more focused on home recording, so it's always really cool to like, be part of that collaboration, like with friends, and maybe even roommates who can kind of really easily just bounce ideas off each other. Like how is that like, essentially playing with a group of friends on this record?

Max Gowan 4:45
Yeah, it's more I mean, I feel like the older I get the more fun I have doing that. Use it. Music used to be this really solitary activity for me at least I like enjoyed it a lot as a very like almost like manic like you Don't lock yourself in a room for like eight hours and try to make something alone. And I still enjoy doing that. But I think yeah, the older I get, the more like, that loses its novelty a little bit. And it feels a lot more fun and novel to have other people in the room. And I've actually started recording friends and trying to branch out to other bands to at my house just because I'm enjoying being involved on other people's projects. Pretty much as much as I enjoyed doing my own stuff now.

Plover 5:30
Yeah, so you're doing some like mixing and mastering for other people. Yeah, kind of what's it like being part of other people's creative process like that in terms of like, I guess, the post production side,

Max Gowan 5:44
it's, I really like mixing and mastering other people's music actually a lot more than I like doing to my own music. Because there's like a level of objectivity, at least, I would like to think there's a level of objectivity that I am able to have when it's someone else's song, and I'm like, the fresh pair of yours on it, you know, kind of putting the finishing touches before it's finished. Whereas if you've been making a song yourself, and you know, you've probably heard this, like, there's kind of the old adage that like, the band shouldn't mix the record, like it should be done by someone else. And it's because you get so close to something while you're working on it, that you kind of lose perspective on it a little bit. So I think, yeah, I really enjoy working with other people. Because to me, I feel like this, you know, they've put all this effort into recording, and writing and performing. And it sounds great. And then it's my job to just kind of like, make stuff shine as much as possible from the status already.

Plover 6:46
I'm not myself and producer and I have heard of that adage. But I guess I'm not really the most clear about that kind of process. What does like mixing and mastering kind of do in terms like, like, what does that really do to the music?

Max Gowan 7:00
Yeah, so basically, the way that I would explain it is like microphones, when you're recording something, even though a lot of microphones are amazing, they're still kind of just like worst ears. And basically, even a really, really well recorded project, there's a lot of balancing to do, you know, kind of like in your car. You know, if you've got like a bass, mid and treble knob, mixing is sort of like a much more complicated version of that, but for every element of the music, so you know, your drum set your guitars, your vocals, and then mastering is kind of ensuring that that the song will sound good, across as many playback systems as possible, you know, and also, you want to ensure that the song is like, roughly as loud as other songs in the genre. So that's like what mastering is try not to make this too boring. I really enjoy it. I like you know, I really enjoy that process. And I thought it was initially when I started doing it for my own music, I thought it was gonna be like this chore, just like this tedious thing that I had to do to make my music sound good. And then the more I did it, the more I realized, I really enjoy that kind of technical side of things, too.

Plover 8:17
Sure. Yeah, that's really cool. And since you do home recordings, that's really great. You can kind of embrace that kind of technical side and don't just like hand it off to a producer. On it's always good to see right. Yeah, exactly. Um, what is it? What is Glossolalia? Mean? Exactly? I don't know. I know that word.

Max Gowan 8:35
Yeah, it's a pretty goofy word. I feel like half of the reason I picked it is just because I liked how it sounds. I feel like it makes very good album title. But basically, it's the act of spontaneously speaking in tongues. That's glossolalia. So like, I think there's another word for speaking randomly in a length in a language that exists that you don't know how to speak in. But then there's also Lily, I think is like speaking in a tongue that like humans don't speak. It's kind of a biblical thing. But yeah, I kind of picked that as the album title because musically, this album felt really like I guess you could say spontaneous to me. Like I really followed my whims, especially with a lot of the instrumentals. And there's a lot of like, twists and turns, I guess that the album takes and so I sort of wanted to have this title that captured like the, I guess the abstract nature of that. Does that make sense?

Plover 9:38
Yeah, for sure. Um, yeah, notice there are a lot of very free flowing tracks or some like just straight up instrumental tracks, more with your vocals in it. I talked about that. How do you like start with the instrumental do you start with like an idea, lyrically and then like building an instrumental from that?

Max Gowan 9:55
I think usually my like, my better songs. In my opinion, I will get like one very brief, lyrical idea. Around the same time I get like, you know, for example, if I'm sitting down playing guitar, there'll be sort of this implied melody and whatever chord progression I'm playing, and I can kind of start, just like almost making like just phonetic sounds when I'm singing along, and then all of a sudden, like, a vocal idea will come to me through that. So that's usually how it starts. But then other times, you know, I'll just have a day to myself and just like, throw up the mics on the drums and kind of way down a groove. And then I build an instrumental from there and then do vocals last. So it all varies. It really depends on how I'm feeling that day.

Plover 10:45
For sure. And of course, it comes out great. One of my favorite songs off of that project was Jackal. What exactly did like that there was a lot of symbol of a Jackal, like, you're acting like a jackal. What exactly. Were you going for over that one?

Max Gowan 11:01
Oh, man. That's a good question. Yeah, that's the that's the first track on the album. And I think I was like, I had been writing like several iterations of songs like, kind of around this theme of a jackal. And I don't really, I kind of want it to be open ended, I'd like people to take what it from their will or take from it what they will. But in my, I guess my thinking around it, however abstract that might be is like, kind of this distrust of strangers that maybe exists in America more than it does in other places. I don't know, I haven't really lived anywhere else. But like, just this sort of idea that we can kind of build up people to be these monstrosities that they aren't necessarily. And so that's sort of what the song is getting at.

Plover 11:55
Sure. So is it like a character being a monstrosity was like you being a monstrosity?

Max Gowan 12:02
Right, yeah, it's like, you know, the perception that someone else might be distrustful of you or that you might be? I don't know, I guess like just the distrust of the stranger and like the unknown that sort of like the jackal. Sorry, I'm planning but by sometimes my lyrics can be pretty abstract.

Plover 12:26
Yeah, I'm sure there's many different interpretations of that one song even. Um, so you mentioned a few sort of hints about your song, your sound excuse me, it's like, singer songwriter? Like, what exactly would you like, specifically, tell people who were like, I've never heard a max gallon song before just to kind of sell them on that.

Max Gowan 12:47
I think as like canned as it sounds, I would probably just tell someone that it's like indie rock music. I wish we had a better word. But I feel like that's a pretty good catch all for? Like, it'll give you an idea of what I sound like, you know what I mean? For sure. So yeah, that's usually what I would tell someone.

Plover 13:07
Yeah, definitely hear the indie rock sound. And especially in sort of the transition from the pre recorded version to like a live version where you, you bring in more of a live band, what what's like going to like seeing the songs like amplified and added that extra dimension live with other people working on?

Max Gowan 13:26
Yeah, that's been something that's been really amazing about doing this project for as long as I've done it is, I always have had a good solid group of like, friends and musicians who are down to help me, you know, do these songs live. And so usually, it's a four piece like right now, I'm really happy with the live version of our band that we've got. It's my friend Cruz, my friend Paul and my friend Ryan. And so you know, it's kind of like a traditional rock setup, like guitar, bass drums. But Cruz plays a lot of lap steel, which has been a really awesome texture to have live that I haven't had before. And he's an incredible player. And so, you know, he's able to cover some of the more ambient things that I might have in a recording that we can't really replicate live. He's kind of able to cover that in his own like 20 laps fuel way, which I really appreciate. Or

Plover 14:23
What was that word? Exactly?

Max Gowan 14:26
laughs Yeah, yeah. Like like a slide guitar. Like country, country vibes,

Plover 14:33
very singer, songwriter. And mentoring life. Se we saw you at a show at the WKNC hopscotch Day party. How was playing that one?

Max Gowan 14:46
I was so much fun. Yeah, I really enjoyed that. I wasn't sure what to expect because I'd seen some WKNC hosted shows on the loading dock, but not at the front of the DH Hill library and I felt like it worked out pretty well. There was like a good crowd. We enjoyed the set. I felt like we played all our songs like I don't know if it's because it was broad daylight and we're used to playing in like, you know, dive bars or something. We played the whole set like, on like turbo speed. Like, if we did all the songs like really fast, but I enjoyed it. I feel like people seem to enjoy it. So yeah, overall, very good day.

Plover 15:26
That was really cool. And then of course, the the person who came up to you afterwards and told you the Queen died during your set. How was hearing that one?

Max Gowan 15:35
Yeah. It's weird, because that news was breaking, like, while we were getting ready for the show is that like, you know, she'd been hospitalized. And Cruz was like, Dude, what if that happened, like, while we were playing? And then the, I guess the prophecy came true, but yeah, that was pretty crazy.

Plover 15:53
I would be very surprised if I sort of walked out hearing that, um, yeah, that it was a great set, of course, and and you mentioned you play a lot of kind of dive bars, sort of indoor things. What would you say is like, kind of the cool part, or I guess the importance of those kind of live like free shows, like, kind of come by? See a few minutes?

Max Gowan 16:14
Yeah, I mean, I guess, are you saying like, what's the importance of like, like, de partie? Types? Yeah. Yeah, I really liked them. Because I think, obviously, it's more accessible to the average person, you know, there's not that like, barrier, the cost to see a band that you've potentially never heard. So I think it's like, better exposure for the band. And it's also nice when, you know, there's like an organization like state that can still afford to pay the bands, even if it's like a, quote, unquote, free show. But, ya know, I think it's a good thing. I think it's accessible and, you know, someone who's just walking by, and maybe wasn't planning on seeing a band. They'll stop. And then if they like it, they stay. For sure.

Plover 16:58
Yeah, it was, as I heard, definitely audible in the library, too. So they were also able to get a show.

Max Gowan 17:04
Yeah, I walked in there to use the bathroom. And I was like, wow, probably probably not ideal for someone studying right now.

Plover 17:12
Many floors in the library. You mentioned that you played a lot fashion dive bar, what's like, kind of the difference in ambiance, I guess. And we kind of make that happen?

Max Gowan 17:26
Well, I think it all depends on how everybody's feeling that day, you know, like, maybe by the time we're a little bit wound down in the late afternoon or evening getting ready for a show or like more chill as a band, than we are at 1pm. Who's to say you probably would need like to hook us up to machines and study our like heart rhythms or something to really secure.

Plover 17:51
That'd be really good analysis. So this is, of course, the hopscotch Day party, where you're at kind of any other of the day parties are in Hopscotch in general, either as a band or just as an audience member.

Max Gowan 18:02
Yeah, I did a fair amount of hopscotch stuff. I actually was able to score like a free wristband. Shout out to my friend Vaughn. I still don't know exactly how that was acquired. But I won't ask any questions. Yeah, and so I got to see Courtney Barnett, which was great. I got to catch most of Black Country in the road on Friday night. And then, or maybe that was Thursday. And then, yeah, that was Thursday. And then Friday. The big show that I went to was Tomberlin. And my friends in truth club, and MJ Lenderman played a very late show at the poor house that was like, completely packed. It ended I think we got out at like 2am. And it was like, it was an incredible show. I love all three of those bands. But I'd never seen MJ before. He was the only one that I hadn't seen live. And he had like, eight people on stage with him. And it was like, devastatingly loud in the best way. I was very, very stoked about that one.

Plover 19:07
So it was really cool. He was also at the like, the outside part of hopscotch. And that was a really cool set there too.

Max Gowan 19:13
Yeah, I think I played like four shows last year.

Plover 19:17
Going off. So the Pour House of course was packed. We were trying to get into the poorhouse but the line was just like around the block when we came in. I'm glad you're able to get into that.

Max Gowan 19:25
Yeah, I felt that I was seeing how many people outside were trying to get in. And it was like, pretty much at capacity. Like right as Tomberlin started? Yeah, I think so. But yeah, it was a good time.

Plover 19:37
I'm sure the atmosphere in there was was awesome. Um, uh, what would you say is kind of like, I guess the importance of I guess, hopscotch or just having a big music festival like that. I'm in the Raleigh area.

Max Gowan 19:49
I think it's, it's tough because, you know, sometimes festivals can be I guess, like overhyped, and it's Since like, you know, I've heard complaints about that with like, South by Southwest before that kind of turns into this, like, corporate, you know, networking thing, more than like, more than just about the music, but I don't know, I feel like as long as the festival really seems to center music in the way that hopscotch does, like, I think the day party aspect of hopscotch is really cool. I think that like, you know, the ticketed events are awesome, obviously, like, that's a lot of the names that people show up for. But like, I think the day parties are a great way to get people who may not be aware of what's going on locally, to check out local things, and it's, like, very low risk for them to do so. You know, it's like, well, I'm already going to hopscotch. And there's all this free stuff happening all day, you know, so I might as well check it out. And so I think that's really nice. And it's cool dude, to see it be an institution in Raleigh for as long as it's I don't know how long it's been. But I definitely remember going in high school. So it's at least a little while then.

Plover 21:07
It's been a minute and like, also just I feel like the day party culture is almost as big if not biggest, like natural hopscotch. Now I feel like so many people I know were like thought hopscotch was like, either our day party or just a party is in general. So that's cool that that like focus on the local scene is also kind of bled out of the general, I guess music circles of Raleigh.

Max Gowan 21:27
Yeah, exactly. I liked the day party slash night thing, kind of like blend into one at this point. I think that's cool.

Plover 21:35
And also just like how, like, spread out everything is new. Just kind of like Wonder and then oh, wow, I hear music playing from somewhere. It was really great. So you read the porosity or any other day parties, you you're able to make it do.

Max Gowan 21:49
I was at. I was at well, I played a solo set alongside a lot of really good solo, classic duo performers at this place called unlikely professionals, which is like a clothing shop slash bar, right by like, person street bar, if people know where that is. And that was a really fun day party on Friday. It was hosted by this guy, Rusty who's really nice. And he has something called this is not a show, I believe is the name of his radio show. And though Yeah, he invited me to play and I got to see Dan from friendship to a beautiful solo set. Got to see Williamson. Oh, stone. I missed riggings. But I heard good things. So yeah, it was that was a really nice, kind of like, intimate, quiet day party.

Plover 22:44
Sounds really cool. I've never ever heard of that kind of venue before. But um, I'm sure that went well.

Max Gowan 22:49
Yeah, I hadn't been there before. It's like it's a really cool store. They also gave me an insane amount of like, free trophy beer, which, which is always cool.

Plover 22:59
For sure. And another great venue. Of course, the nightlight recently closed down. I remember seeing your show with her and thought that was really, really cool. How's it that that's a big loss for the scene? How does that kind of closing kind of impact the area?

Max Gowan 23:14
Yeah, you said nightlight? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I didn't realize you're at that show. That's cool. Yeah, that was that the one I played with truth? Yeah. No, that really is a wonderful spot like i i played, or I didn't play there. I watched friends band play there. A few years ago, while I was in college, and I wasn't living here. I was just like in town for a break. And I always thought that was like one of the best venues in Chapel Hill. So I'm really sad to see it go. Unfortunately, it seems like you're hearing more and more about stuff like that. There's a lot of places in Raleigh that are either already closed or I've heard of will be closing in the next few months. You know, and like, yeah, it's a bummer to see that happen. And I don't really know what the solution is. But yeah, definitely

Plover 24:01
sad to see in a rough couple years and Kings was back for a bit, but I think I guess that's not coming back. Totally.

Max Gowan 24:08
I honestly have no idea what's going on with I love kings to death. So I was uh, yeah, I would take a bullet for King anyway to keep it afloat. Someone let me know

Plover 24:19
for sure. Yeah. It was a bit before my time. I was never able to really go to that place ended Awesome.

Max Gowan 24:26
Yeah, yeah, I've seen so much good stuff at Kings. Really nice place.

Plover 24:32
Honestly, I guess it was like maybe the favorite show you've ever played either in a sort of indoor place or more of an outdoor spot? What would be your your favorite show?

Max Gowan 24:42
Oh, that's a good question. Let me think there was a Halloween show that we did. in Raleigh, there was a house venue that is no longer but it was called the ash house. It was on Ash Avenue and we played On Halloween, if not the day of Halloween, it was like, you know, Halloween weekend. So essentially Halloween, and everyone was in costume. I believe I was dressed up as Luigi, if I'm not mistaken. And yeah, we played with black bouquet and vacant company. And it was just like really good turnout, like a ton of people showed up. And you know, it was Halloween. So everyone was rowdy, and I always I enjoy like a healthy amount of rowdiness show like sometimes that can be more fun than, than like a bar show. So that's probably my favorite show in recent memory, mainly because I got to be in costume. No,

Plover 25:42
it definitely adds a dimension. Yeah, you mentioned you've kind of grown up in Raleigh and lived here for very long. And we've seen a lot of venues close recently. Have you seen any kind of like growth in the Raleigh sort of local scene?

Max Gowan 25:57
It's hard to say because I'm, we're, you know, we've started playing a lot more live shows recently. But I feel like COVID, especially at the beginning kind of disconnected me from a lot of that. So I, I feel more out of the loop than maybe I was like in 2019, you could say, but it does seem like there's still a really strong community here for music. And I it's hard to say whether or not I'm seeing it growing, but it definitely still feels pretty strong. So that's, that's probably the best answer I can give.

Plover 26:32
Yeah, it's always good. Yeah, I remember I was when I was volunteering in hopscotch. I was talking to this someone about, like, how everyone's kind of moving into Raleigh. And that's, and it's good that we like have a festival for that. And hopefully that can some some people kind of converging on the area can can help grow that scene a bit.

Max Gowan 26:49
Yeah, and I'm sure that will happen. I mean, again, like I feel like COVID kind of makes it so hard to gauge things like that. Because it really shut things down for a while. But I don't know, I feel like just this year alone, like I've seen a lot of great shows. Seems like people are going to see stuff. I feel like people are actually maybe more eager to go out now than they were before. You know, it's like, now I feel like things like seeing live music might feel a little more precious. Maybe that's my guess at

Plover 27:23
least. Yeah, definitely not taking for granted. Yeah, right. Right. Exactly. Nice. I mentioned a lot of stuff during COVID. I love this kind of the trajectory before COVID. If you have any insight on that.

Max Gowan 27:36
Yeah. So before COVID I've been playing my project was still very much a thing. But I was just, you know, finishing up school in DC. I graduated in May of 2019. And so I came back to Raleigh, with my girlfriend, Amelia, you know, just looking to work and play music here. kind of reconnect with some of my friends here. And yeah, so that was really what I was doing before. COVID was, you know, I kind of started up the live band here in Raleigh. We were playing a few shows here and there. I was working in a call center, which was terrible. Yeah, I'm glad I left that job. So yeah, all in all, I feel like, you know, we probably played like six or seven shows. Once I had returned to Raleigh, and then COVID hit. And then we didn't play anything. Until hopscotch of 2021. We did a day party at Ruby Deluxe. That was the first show back.

Plover 28:37
So we got to get back on your feet. Do you have any plans for kind of any upcoming shows to promote glossolalia?

Max Gowan 28:44
Yeah, we're doing we're playing a show at night writer on the 23rd of this month, which is a Friday. I'm really looking forward to that when that's with gentle Junior and southern aliens, I believe. And yeah, we'll be playing several tracks off the new record. So I'm really stoked for that one. And then I think we're doing something in Richmond and October and we've got some other triangles shows lined up after that. So that's kind of the trajectory.

Plover 29:14
Awesome. Yeah, that's, that's great to see that you're you're back out there as strong as ever. Um, do you have any more plans for any more music? Or is it just like, I just dropped an album, let's just play some play some songs live. Yeah,

Max Gowan 29:27
I mean, definitely not writing anything yet for my own project. I've been really busy like doing this mixing and mastering stuff pretty much full time. So I'm planning on doing much more of that. And I also want to start recording and producing more for triangle bands. I you know, I've been dipping my toes into that I just finished helping Caroline finish her record the new infinity crush record, which should be out at some point soon. So I'm looking to do a lot more just collaborative work with other musicians. I think that's my to kind of pass going forward for the next year or so, and then we'll see I'm sure I'll put out more music of my own. But yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna chill with that for

Plover 30:07
a little bit. So yeah, I'm sure that was not easy putting out an album. So I definitely want to let that ruminate. Right. Awesome. Is there anything else you wanted to talk about here?

Max Gowan 30:19
No, I don't think so. Yeah, we really, we really covered it all. I feel like

Plover 30:23
awesome. Yeah, I think airports. Thank you so much for being here and talking. If you want to let the listeners know kind of where to find you either on social media where you can they can find your music.

Max Gowan 30:33
Yeah, thank you. So again, it's just my name, which is max gallon. If you Google that, it should come up with anything you would need. But you can also go to Max gallon.bandcamp.com To listen or buy physical of my music. You can find me on Spotify, all that good stuff. And if you are looking for recording or mixing or mastering, you can check out my website for that, which is max gallon audio.com. And you can reach out through there, if any of that's of interest to you.

Plover 31:07
Awesome. Yeah. Thank you for all that. And yes, it's a great interview.

Max Gowan 31:12
Yeah, thanks so much for the chat. I really appreciate it.

Plover 31:14
Thank you for listening to this interview with Max going here on WKNC. If you want to check out any of our other interviews, you can go to wknc.org/podcast I've been plover this has been off the record and Max Gowan has been Max Gowan. See you next time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai