Off the Record

Kevelle Wilson 0:11
Hello everyone, you're listening to WKNC at 8.1 FM HD, one rally where a student run a nonprofit radio station based out of North Carolina State University. I'm Kiva Wilson. And this is off the record. Today we have Rosie Tucker. Y'all mind introducing yourself real quick.

Rosie Tucker 0:30
Hello, I'm Rosie Tucker. Should I talk about myself? Or is that appropriate?

Kevelle Wilson 0:35
Sure. Go ahead.

Rosie Tucker 0:38
Um, I am a singer songwriter from Los Angeles, and I'm on tour right now.

Kevelle Wilson 0:47
They are going to be in Durham tomorrow. So you should probably be there. Yeah. So first question I have for you. Something really interesting, I've noticed about your music is you kind of tend to stick to the short form. You have songs on the shorter side. Your longest album is what? 35 minutes? Yes. And you just put out 20 songs? Only one? Yes. What kind of draws you to having shorter form? Music.

Rosie Tucker 1:17
I think that being a very lyrics oriented person means that once I have completed an idea, in a lyric way, like everything is coherent, and hangs together, the metaphors make sense. I do not feel pressure to like pack more in. I think that there are forms, there's a lot of music, where so much of what is delightful about the music is really settling into a groove for a very, very long time. And that is not what my songwriting has got. But that's okay. So yeah, I think it's kind of just being lyric forward. And I mean, subsequent music, I think there will be more room to expand and every time I record something else, not so a tiny songs, but every album has kind of led me to try new things and longer form and stuff. So we'll see what the future brings. But yeah.

Kevelle Wilson 2:23
Also with tiny songs, he put out kind of a visual element as well, every single song had his own little visual thing. And you collaborated with a bunch of different artists with animation and live stuff. How did you kind of go about finding all these collaborators to help you with your vision?

Rosie Tucker 2:39
Um, it was so fun. A couple of them are strangers, like really dope, I feel like we found two of them on Tumblr. Which is amazing, which is amazing. And like now, you know, have like, had really great experiences with everyone working with everyone, which is so cool, because you can kind of make a friend in that way. But for the most part. These were people that I knew in my life, like a couple of the people were musicians who happen to also do like film stuff for fun. One of the animators who also animated, animated two of the tiny songs, and then animated my most recent music video for a regular size of song still short, but regular. That person, her name is Vanessa de la Mora. And she is like my neighbor, like, just, yeah, just like someone where it's like, oh my gosh, like you are so talented. Like, can you know, and we're hanging out all the time anyway. And it was like, Would it be cool if maybe, you know, so it was very close to home. There's a lot of a lot of really good friends and like collaborators from different parts and times of my life on that project.

Kevelle Wilson 4:06
Nice. Um, do you think you'll kind of push more of a visual element to your music when you're moving forward?

Rosie Tucker 4:15
I hope so. Yes. I think yes. I'm just because I feel like I'm finally in a place in my artistry, where I sort of, can even imagine what that would look like. And where I have collaborators who are down to help me with that, but it took a really long time to, to come to feeling confident in engaging with my own visual art and with being participatory in it. Okay,

Kevelle Wilson 4:50
kind of talking about your progression as a musician. In your 15 questions, interview, you kind of talked about how which was a few years ago at this point. You're practicing writing over loops because you're used to writing songs over a guitar. Yes, I was that kind of come along. You think you'd gotten better at that? Um,

Rosie Tucker 5:13
I feel like I wrote like one song that way. And I was like, well, that's your was fun. And then I did it. And then No, so no, I haven't really done much of that right now what I have in my craw as a concept. I think it's always good to be imagining stuff that is kind of alongside your art, and maybe something will develop into a new passion, and maybe it won't. Right now, I'm really enjoying the idea, just a dream of like, making a slowcore EP where they offer anything. Yeah, anything I love, I feel like my songs are very not droney they're very, there's a lot of movement, there's a lot of melody, it's all packed really, really tight. And that's like a strength of mine, I think. But I love I love the slow drone. I love it. So I'm hopeful that that will be my next exploration, and maybe just for me, you know, maybe nothing comes out. And that's okay.

Kevelle Wilson 6:15
Okay, I do want to kind of touch on that. So when you're kind of, in the kind of beginning stage of, maybe you have a handful of tracks that kind of have a similar vibe or aesthetic? How do you kind of go from there being like, Okay, this is going to be something that's going to be a complete project, or some like, Oh, this is just something like a little sonic version, like people probably won't see this. And that's fine. As that kind of decision, right?

Rosie Tucker 6:39
That's a really good question. And like, with the tiny songs record, the answer was like, it's all going in, like, all this random stuff, we're just doing it. I've made my past two full length records with Wolfie, who is my partner in art and in life. And who is also sitting in this room right now silently, the big reveal, but um, and so that having a partner in the creation and arrangement and engineering means that I will have written a whole bunch of songs. And then I sort of bring him in like, Okay, I have this collection, let's go through and kind of imagine, what are we feeling? Is this going to be super fast? Is it a slow? Is it? Are we going for beautiful or kind of jagged? Like, what are the forms that these particular works can take, and you go through every single song, and you see what it wants, and what it needs and where, you know, our visions might align or where it's like, Oh, I heard that totally differently. So in that way, I think it's very collaborator oriented. And I do you know, when I have time, I really enjoy collaborating with other friends who work in other genres sometimes, you know, I've produced out a few things for friends, where I haven't written it at all. Sometimes I'm more participatory from the beginning. But I also love how that music doesn't necessarily have to come out. And it can just be enjoyed. And it can be its own process. And then, when I get with Wolfie to make an album, it's like, okay, like, we're making an album, like, we want to make the whole thing. We're doing it ourselves, and we're gonna share it with the world. And that's its own thing, you know?

Kevelle Wilson 8:37
Would you be comfortable answering a few questions? You know, passing them the mic real quick. Hello, hello. Um, so you seem like you're kind of very involved in the creation process of music. You think you've kind of learned that skill from somewhere. Um,

Wolfy 8:58
I went to music school, but as a singer, songwriter, so I learned all of the music performance skills in college. And then when I got out of college, I only realized I wanted to produce my senior year. And I was like, Well, I think I want to be in control of everything. Then after school, a friend passed on a job that she had to me, which was working in a guy's home studio, where I still sometimes work now, like, seven, eight years later, and he's like, he's a really good friend. But he was like my mentor, and basically taught me everything, like how to use mics, how to which mics are which and how to plug them in and how to make a drum kit and how to make a guitar and hear all the different kinds of pedals and here's how you do everything. And so it was learning there and I was always overly confident telling people I could record them very confident, and I think to decent results. So then I just Recorded everyone because I had gone to music school. And that's where I met Rosie. And so I just recorded all of my friends. And I had been doing that ever since. So I just kind of learned on the fly. And here we are.

Kevelle Wilson 10:11
Okay, I do want to kind of touch on that I both of y'all can kind of speak to this question. What do you think going to, like school or university or whatever, like perfect, like in an actual professional sense? Do you think that really helped you kind of kick off your music career? Or do you think you maybe would have been better off using that money and time elsewhere?

Rosie Tucker 10:36
That is a really good and a really important question that people who want to work in the arts need to be asking themselves, I don't think we went to USC, which is like a super duper expensive private university. And I don't think that I can really know the degree to which one way or another, the money and time spent might have shaken out. I think that music education is beautiful. And I think that, that the opportunity to cultivate your skills and an environment where there is not pressure to make money, and where you have kind of at any time access to resources, like recording studios, or even practice rooms with pianos in them, is just hugely useful. And so in that way, I think that college is beautiful. I know. You know, someone who dropped out who is having a bang and career. And I know, people who have completed music school, some of whom are playing ginormous rooms, and some of them have totally normal day jobs. So. So I can't really speak to what the path is. I know that at USC, and in my life, there's a lot of like, financial privilege. And that is a huge, huge factor and who is able to make this career work? But yeah, that was kind of a non answer. I think that using the school's resources is really, really cool. And there are not a lot of environments like that. So if you can get into the school's resources, like even if you're getting like the worst grades in the world, sometimes it might be worth it. If you can hang, I don't know, what do you think we'll see?

Wolfy 12:36
Yeah, I think just being immersed in, in the subject was the most valuable being immersed in the subject. And we were in a major called Popular music, I was on the second graduating class. It was like School of Rock, it was so dumb, it was so experimental, they were still figuring it out. Like I'm sure it's so much better now, because I graduated like almost 10 years ago. So I'm sure it's so much better. Now. They were just figuring it out. But the course load is huge. Like it was really busy. We were as busy as like the architecture students in terms of our units we were taking, and our our homework. So just being immersed in the subject, and being in a really small class of like 25 with other people who are also immersed was invaluable. And as someone who's pretty shy, I don't think I would have found myself with other musicians unless I was in school for it. But it really is the focus and the four years of just playing so much playing so much guitar. I had never played as much guitar until like COVID When I was like, in my room, watching movies and playing guitar. So that was valuable for me

Kevelle Wilson 13:53
okay, I'm kind of speaking as a and be myself. How does kind of your identity kind of shaped its way into your music besides like the obvious like your song like a bar, but how does it you think it may or may be a more subconscious level kind of plays into your music?

Rosie Tucker 14:13
Have to think I do think to some degree, it is subconscious, I guess with me and the idea of being non binary. I feel like we were talking about this the other night, whereas like I feel like I like the term a gender. Like I have people in my life who are non binary who are like reveling in gender they like want it all you know, they they like love, you know, fashion expression and a huge range of ways and like they're feeling I'm today I mask and today I'm firm. And for me, the way that I have related to gender is I just have always felt like it is confusing and someone has to tell me the rules.

Kevelle Wilson 14:57
I agree Thank you.

Rosie Tucker 15:01
And so I feel like for me, embracing gender neutrality internally and for myself and allowing myself the gift of like, no, like I am, I am refusing to stake a claim anywhere. It has enabled me to be so much more free and how I relate to my art and my relationships and just strangers, other people, because I am not interacting with people, and expecting that there is a particular role I do or do not need to fill. So, I don't, I don't know if there's a concrete way that I can express that that comes out in music, except that I think the fact that I am able to make music and enjoy it so much, and like so much of the joy in my life comes from living in that truth.

Kevelle Wilson 15:59
Awesome. I think another joy of your music comes from your humor, I think. I think a lot of indie artists are picking up on like, your song doesn't have to be sad and serious all the time. It can be funny. What kind of role does humor play into your music?

Rosie Tucker 16:18
I love this question so deeply. There is such a kind of, I'm not trying to talk smack but there's such an annoying meme culture of like, oh, sad. Yeah. So sad. And I people will feel what they feel and process when and how they process and if music plays a role in that, yeah. But I feel like there's so much more to be confused and angry about I agree. Um, sadness has this kind of like passive, you know, giving up vibe to it. Whereas like, being perturbed is eternal, like you're alive if you're confused, and there's so much to be confused about people are strange out here. I mean, even like with gender, it's like, it's, it's just absurd and counterintuitive. So I think that yeah, humor is, is just abundant in the world, because people are bizarre, and it is just a coping mechanism for not being, like, totally upset all the time, if you are able to just hold whatever is so strange about a situation and like, kind of enjoy it. Like I'm thinking about this one time that I played a show in Cleveland, and it was in a basement and it was like, the week of Halloween, but it wasn't Halloween and my life was my personal life was falling apart. And we were supposed to stay with one of the other bands and they all came in dressed as clowns. Like scary, like scary dressed as clowns. And one of them this dude in this band was like staring at my pedal board at the end of the set and was like, this pedal made this noise and I was like, No, this pedal made that noise. And he was like, No, this pedal made this noise and I was just like so exhausted and talking to a clown about my pedal board and it was like okay, like I'm I can't I can't be upset I just have to be like, this is an experience Yeah, it's for me to enjoy later yeah. Yeah. So

Kevelle Wilson 18:30
many things that are frustrating and and make you angry or sad at the time this are hilarious looking back upon it and I think like should be more about realizing things will be better when you look back upon them.

Rosie Tucker 18:43
Yeah, like that's like resilience building. Like people you got to you have to be able to laugh at the ways that people are very absurd, because it's too stressful. You can't afford to let your heart rate go up that often you know

Kevelle Wilson 19:02
I'm so I kind of wanted to talk about some of your Instagram posts. So you have at least one pair of the famous prints. Three iPads. This are you I'm assuming you're a fan. You

Rosie Tucker 19:21
know what? I know that these are famous prints glasses, but I have not done my homework about prints. No, I know. Revealing and embarrassing. And if you have recommendations for where to start if you are a fan, I'm very curious because he's just one of the like mega mega super artists that it's like, Oh, I know that I gotta get in there and I have not yet.

Kevelle Wilson 19:49
No, no pressure. He has like a million albums. A lot of them are not good. But I think the truth I think was what 96 was released. I think that's a good album, like more acoustic you can really hear is he has an amazing voice and you can really hear that I'm cool. With something you do know about you recently change your Spotify profile to it. You're over at Whammies you talked to me a bit about why you liked that place.

Rosie Tucker 20:22
Oh man. wammie analog is a VHS store in Los Angeles. And we had our tiny song premiere there. We did a premiere party. I'm putting air quotes. I mean, it was a technically premiere, but it was mostly just a really sweet gathering. But I don't know, it's just a really great place. It's got a beautiful vibe. It's run by a couple of really cool people. They put on like, a ton of interesting cult films and like, you know, old queer films like really cool programming. And then yeah, they have all of these VHS tapes and they just look beautiful. I don't have a VHS player, but they just, they look so great. And the the art of, of that physical form is so fun to peruse. So yeah, it was really fun to take photos there.

Kevelle Wilson 21:27
Nice. So I've been the callee want for a few hours. Oh, wow. And you grow grew up in San Fernando.

Rosie Tucker 21:36
I grew up in the San Fernando Valley. Fernando valleys. San Fernando is a city within the San Fernando Valley. Okay. Why were you in Cali for a couple of hours?

Kevelle Wilson 21:48
Basically, we are moving from Hawaii back to the mainland. And that was his way. So he drove me out of the state when we got there.

Rosie Tucker 22:00
Wow, okay. Yeah. Okay. Very interesting. I will ask you more questions later. But yes, I am from the San Fernando Valley. Okay,

Kevelle Wilson 22:12
so if you had to take all of us on a tour, a one day tour, where are we going?

Rosie Tucker 22:18
Oh, that is oh my god, we don't we need more than one day Los Angeles is so spread out. It's so spread out. Um, okay, but we only have one day.

Kevelle Wilson 22:30
Just think about like the valley like if we're staring into the valley for one day. Yeah, we're one day okay. Um

Rosie Tucker 22:40
I think that we need to go either to the top of Topanga or the top of receita. Okay, I feel like to have the experience that I want you to have. Or the one day we need to get some fast food. Okay, and what

Kevelle Wilson 23:11
what? What fast food are you in in and out enjoyer

Rosie Tucker 23:15
I do enjoy in and out we could get in and out honestly, if we're gonna get in and out we should go to in and out like we should eat in when it's gonna be the best. So maybe we like go to the in and out. And like I think there's one on Sherman way and like we get the animal fries and I get the grilled cheese because I'm a vegetarian. Maybe you're hungry you get a double double I don't know. I like the grilled onions also and the chopped chilies I have the most involved in and out or professional every time I'm like I am so I feel like I need to apologize but there's so so pro they always it's ridiculous but yeah, so we eat at in and out all the fries are still hot and then we'll take the milkshakes and then we'll drive to the top of receita or the top of Topanga that one is a little more involved of a hike but yeah and then we're just gonna look at the lights like we're just going to enjoy maybe a beautiful sunset and see you know if there's any new tags in the area that are nice school are and we'll just enjoy it. Nice.

Kevelle Wilson 24:29
Yeah. Okay, kind of talking about the greater LA area. Yeah, how I'm just curious because it seems like every single influencer musician artists find their way to LA some way. I'm just curious. How often do you run into other other people like you? Oh, it must be

Rosie Tucker 24:56
people like me I mean, now I live in a suburb. And it's so beautiful. I love that a lot. It just depends on what part of town you're in. Um, I mean

Speaker 1 25:19
don't want to, I don't want to say that people shouldn't move to Los Angeles. But I

Kevelle Wilson 25:26
find the gatekeeper.

Rosie Tucker 25:33
liberating for me, um, no, I just feel like I, I don't spend a ton of time like there are neighborhoods that are basically super high end shopping malls now, were 10 years ago, they might not have been. And so I don't, I don't think that I spend a ton of time in the parts of Los Angeles where I would like would run into the people that are doing music careers, like, they, those parts of La totally exist. And if I go to them, there's a feeling of like, Oh, I like what if I run into someone? It's not fun at all. Yeah, I don't want to, I want to hang out with the people who I hang out with, most of whom do not have music careers. And, um, you know, not all of them, but most of whom and I want to, like eat at the spots I want to eat at, and I don't really want anyone to know about them. And when people tell me, they're moving to LA, I have a really hard time remaining neutral, and neither and neither encouraging, nor dissuading them. Because it's their life, and they can do what they want. Okay, but but also, the, I mean, it's like we're in a housing crisis. Like, it's hard for everyone in Los Angeles already. Like, it's hard out here. And there are so many beautiful cities you can live in, in this country. And I think there should be an application.

Kevelle Wilson 27:14
Also, on your Instagram, you posted that you wanted some music suggestions, but it had to be weird. Yes. Can you kind of talk about what weird music? So yeah.

Rosie Tucker 27:25
Yes, that's a really great question. I feel like so the distinctions that I put on that Instagram post were like, before 2010, or it was like any of these categories doesn't have to qualify with all of them. But before 2010, which I like because there's enough distance to where I will not feel like oh, how is it received? And what is the contemporary relationship to it? Or in a language other than English, which I like, because we can be so so even just United States centric? Not we a lot of people though, yes. I'm just English centric, and very English centric. Yes, exactly. And there's such a wide world of amazing music and pop music and rock music and like, you know, jazz every everything. Um, I'm trying to remember what my third category was. A really bad really bad okay, so really bad is really important and really specific.

Kevelle Wilson 28:40
And like, we talking like the shags

Rosie Tucker 28:43
Yes, I was gonna bring up outsider music, which like, yes, Wolfie is nodding along because he's done a ton of outsider music listening and has great taste in the bad and weird. But yeah, there is bad art that is so sincerely made and that it will cycle around and become and ironically enjoyable. And the absence of irony is very important. And it being good, bad. Because if there's irony, then there's this kind of weird like, superiority, punching down. I think I'm better than this art, and I'm enjoying that. I think someone is stupid. That sucks. That's not fun. What's really fun, is when a song is so shocking ly far away from the conventions of music that I am accustomed to that my heart is unguarded against it and then I cannot help but enjoy it forever. Okay,

Kevelle Wilson 29:53
yeah. Now you've made me very curious. Wolfie, can you kind of put on or audiences some outsider music.

Wolfy 30:01
Have you? Are you aware of the Instagram account? catatonic youths?

Kevelle Wilson 30:05
Oh, yeah, I am not.

Wolfy 30:07
Oh my god, if you're into weird bad outside or music is basically an Instagram account that curates, and I don't know how they find I don't know who runs it. I don't know how they find it. They're always like famous musicians and actors commenting on the posts, but they curate videos, horrible music videos or performances. Amateur outsider musicians from like, all decades, and they make the most hilarious edits, and they'll share them on their Instagram. So that's a great place to find like truly the weird that I wouldn't find that you wouldn't find in like more traditional sources of outsider music like Daniel Johnston and the shags and all of the famous outsider musicians. But yeah, I mean, a lot of stuff from catatonic youth is really good. And I'm also thinking, an old friend that I don't talk to anymore showed me a girl she went to high school with who made a song. It's just not my day. by Jules McDonald Oh, you're

Kevelle Wilson 31:17
not the main draw? Oh, she's,

Wolfy 31:21
it's really good. It's a classic. It's a classic. It's a classic.

Rosie Tucker 31:27
I can't believe you're coming out about that song.

Wolfy 31:32
If Cuba wants to bleep it. They can, they can. But that was tied in post. But that is just one that I can think of that I've come into contact personally, where it's like, I've shown it to like every single person I've met, because that is truly the Rosie's point. And my heart was unguarded. I was so surprised. And how often does music surprise you?

Kevelle Wilson 32:01
That's fair. Yeah.

Rosie Tucker 32:04
Yeah, the weird can really, I think surprise is the most important word. And it's a little bit like, you obviously want to be surprised and moved by works of beauty. Like, that's great. But how often like that's, that's rare. And it's also rare to be surprised by something that is so bad that it's good. But yeah, the shock is just I feel like it puts me in touch with something about being alive. That is like essential that I think that speaks also to the humor of people being just unruly and unpredictable. And like ending up in strange situations like this is we're really in the stuff of like being alive. I also want to mention Songs in the Key of z, which is an archive of outsider music that was compiled in like the 90s or something. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, a lot of weird stuff out there.

Kevelle Wilson 33:01
I kind of what you said was very interesting, kind of talking about kind of that human touch to what we create. That's why I think AI music will never take off. I just feel like, even to like a very casual listener, I feel like the human touch, even if it's mass marketed, in a way, I don't know, I just feel like that human touches something you can't replicate my opinion. I

Rosie Tucker 33:25
think that's very true. I feel like we were watching like, either a lifetime or a Hallmark movie on hotel TV. And it was like a I can't make art that is this bad and sincere. Therefore we're safe. I also think I mean, I can totally imagine because we live in the, the era of memes. And I can like totally imagine AI creating a song that is like a low key hit like a bomb, like holy moly, I'm avoiding cursing is what I just swerved. But like, I could totally imagine a I'm making a song that a bunch of people are like, this is actually so good. And it going super viral and whatever. And then, you know, I'm sure there will be horrible discourse. But what is important is that it is, if a song made by an AI is pleasing, it will be pleasing to humans, and it will have been taught to please humans, by humans, and it will still be a thoroughly human phenomenon. It's just like sending light through a bunch of mirrors and then being shocked when the light is in a different place. It's like well, we did that. Like if someone writes a program that makes a song that is like a, you know, the hit of the year 2030 Like then that's just, you know, whatever. That's just the way that it is. We've also had you have me thinking of about what we're now calling hyper pop, but what we, I think used to be kind of be calling PC music. And like, I'm thinking about Sophie, who was not out as a woman, I don't think when she began making music, yeah, you're right on that. I remember there being like, conversation around that and people being like, is it okay that this person is like, taking on a woman's name and like, altering their voice to sound like a woman like is that, you know, like, weird or suspect. And it's like, no, that was a, that was a trans person utilizing technology to be trans like to access that aspect of their humanity, which they are entitled to. And so I think that there is some thing with the trans people and the technology and the ability to alter our environment, to make the world what we want it to be, and to be unafraid of change. That is important. And I think that the technology only begins to scare me when it is when it gets in the mix of the capitalism and the profit motivation. But before that, it's like, yeah, let's see who can make the best AI song and like, let's party like, that sounds really fun. Like, I want robot pop stars, like, they're not all gonna be good, some robot pop stars are gonna suck, and some are gonna be amazing. And I want to have a favorite, you know, okay,

Kevelle Wilson 36:41
like your positive attitude towards that. So right now, you're kind of in a in between moment between, like shows, I've always kind of wondered what it what it kind of looks like as an artist, what the in between looks like between going from here to there, that here.

Rosie Tucker 37:02
It's a, it's really nice. So like, I've played I'm on this tour right now. And I've played nine shows, and there are three left and didn't have very many days off on this tour. I've been on tours, where there's more time to you know, go to a big park or go to a bookstore, whatever. And there's been a little bit of that we went to a great record store in DC yesterday. But um, but like today, we just drove and talked a lot about the, honestly the music industry and like I got dinner with a friend in DC yesterday. And they were talking about, you know, how do you unionize in this particular part of the instrumentalists. And so today, we just, we just had a lot to talk about in terms of thinking about how it all works and how it can be better.

Kevelle Wilson 38:03
Nice. You might call me a phony for this one. But I've only started listening to your music very recently. But I have gone through all of it. And it's amazing.

Rosie Tucker 38:18
I don't think that's phony. I don't think that there's any time limit and I can't believe that you've gone through all of it. You could have just listened to like four songs and been like got it. I will ask some questions. No,

Kevelle Wilson 38:31
I couldn't do that with your music. I don't know I just love like listening to sucker supreme them for the first time was an amazing experience. And I thank you for that. Like going through that album. I was just like, I had a smile on my face. The whole way through.

Speaker 1 38:51
That is so cool. You thank you for listening.

Kevelle Wilson 38:56
And one of the things that always like even first lesson, I've only like courses stuck out in my mind immediately. I was like, This is so catchy. This is so fun. Like how do you kind of come up with something that's going to stick in your listeners minds? When it comes to lyrics? Oh,

Rosie Tucker 39:13
it just has to be fun to sing and fun to play. That's it. Okay, yeah, no tips. I don't know. There's no, there's no way to gamify it. You just have to enjoy making it. Do you make music?

Kevelle Wilson 39:26
I don't I have no musical talent.

Rosie Tucker 39:29
That's very interesting. People that are so so ingrained in the listening and participating. You don't want to try.

Kevelle Wilson 39:38
For me. It's like I listened to enough music, which I know what you're basically I know what standard I want to be on before I put out anything or even like has someone else listen to it. And I feel like I wouldn't be able to get to that point anytime soon. I'm too embarrassed to start.

Rosie Tucker 39:55
That makes a lot of sense. I understand that. Okay, okay, that's fair. Yeah,

Kevelle Wilson 40:02
kind of talking about your lyrics. You do mentioned Doritos. A little bit. Oh, yes. Yeah. Do you have any other cheese snacks or any snacks in general that you you enjoy as well?

Rosie Tucker 40:14
Yeah, I love the cheese snacks. I love. I like the white cheddar cheese. It's personally good taste. Thank you. Um, Hot Cheetos are a very important snack in the world. I do not indulge as often as I might like, especially the Hot Cheetos with lime. Like I like all of the the Lay's products that are lime flavored, even though they destroy my mouth. The other cheese snacks. I've eaten a lot of baby bells

Kevelle Wilson 40:50
today. Oh, yeah. That's a blast from the past.

Rosie Tucker 40:53
Yeah. It's very nice for touring because you just don't have time. So they're, you know, they're compact. And they make vegan ones now and then very strange. Wow. Yes.

Kevelle Wilson 41:05
They even taste like cheese.

Unknown Speaker 41:07
No,

Kevelle Wilson 41:08
they don't. How would you describe it?

Rosie Tucker 41:12
It was almost like cheese. It was almost like, you know, like the block of cream cheese. Not like the whipped cream cheese. But like the really? Okay, so the very dense cream cheese, I would say it was like that, but even denser. Like very, very dense. Um, I'm getting into texture, I'm getting very specific. It was very dense. There was no chewiness at all. It was kind of like not flavor wise. But I would imagine if an eraser was melting, it would feel like, oh, that

Kevelle Wilson 41:55
sounds very appetizing.

Unknown Speaker 41:57
It was very strange. Yeah.

Kevelle Wilson 42:01
Um, so another thing I wanted to ask you about other wrapping this up? Was the trans pizza party. Yes, it looks like a ton of fun. Can you kind of describe what that event is? Like? Yes.

Rosie Tucker 42:14
Will will be and I should both talk about it. Because I think we do together. But trans pizza party has been just an a huge source of delight and joy in our lives. We just, we just wanted to hang out with trans people. And we wanted it to be as simple and as easy as possible. And we're both pretty introverted. And so the idea was like, Okay, we're gonna pick this pizza place that is in our neighborhood that is really close to us. And if it's like a total failure, like if we hate everyone who shows up, like, we're only there, we said, five to seven, like, we're gonna be at this pizza restaurant from five to seven. And like, worst case scenario, it's, yeah, we leave. And instead, it has just blossomed into this. We do it on the second Sunday of every month. So it's consistent. And that's really important. Not today. Not today, because we're on tour. But we got plans, we got plans. And next time, we got to figure out a sub, you know, but it's okay. We'll figure it out. But yeah, we've been really consistent. We've done six of them. And then we'll be doing a trans giving when we get home. Awesome. Um, but I don't know. It's just, it's just amazing. It's good people. It's really good food. It's grown every time. And it's like the best thing ever. And I think that anyone who can throw a trans pizza party, especially if you can do it, like once a month, like you're gonna make friends, which is so cool. I don't know. We'll see. We'll see. We'll feel it. See what you think about transplanted party?

Wolfy 44:00
Oh, I love TPP. Yeah, it would just, we would walk the dog and go on these long, long walks because he loves to walk us three and a half miles. And we would chat and we were just feeling like I like like I said, I'm like almost 10 years out of college. Rosie's almost eight years out of college where you don't i don't really talk to a lot of my college friends. Definitely don't talk to high school friends and feeling like okay, I'm 30 I want I would like to make some more friends and I want to meet the trans people. I don't want to see trans people on Twitter or Instagram because then I might hate them. They might be super annoying because it's Instagram and Twitter and I don't want to hate my trans siblings. I want to know some trans people. And obviously, in my friend group, most of them are already trans or queer. And so we just thought like, Well, where are we going to meet them? Like maybe we should just throw some trans Pizza party. That's That's it. That's exactly what it sounds like, we'll do it. And so um, yeah, that's what we do. And yeah, excited an iPad, you know? Well, wolfies if you do this for a year, then you get to make merch.

Kevelle Wilson 45:14
Oh, that the merch would go and say, Yeah, okay,

Wolfy 45:18
I'll do it for a year. And then I can make shirts. But yeah, it's just been really fun meeting a bunch of trans people. And they're like, everyone, there are a lot of people, some as young as like 20, and some that are my age. So early 30s, or mid 30s. And there's so the people that come are just so open and generous with their talking. And it's so different from socializing, when we were in college, and being like, oh my god, I'm so nervous to chat with people. Gonna be so boring, and everyone's gonna be so like, like, I feel so dark on these people, like, everyone's gonna be so shady. And competitive, especially in our music scene. But then with trans pizza party, they're just down to socialize. And then people are talking about, like, how they got their name changed, or like going on hormones, and it just kind of comes up, because it turns out that the critical mass for trans people to talk about trans ness is to. So when you get like a group of 20 to 30 trans people, it's like, there gonna be some really interesting conversations, people who, you know, work crazy jobs, people who are out to their families and people who are still in the closet, like, it's really cool. It's really fun to meet real people in the real world, and especially trans people, because I don't know if you've heard, but people don't like us very much, really.

Kevelle Wilson 46:42
Here in America, I can imagine.

Wolfy 46:46
Yeah, just really grateful for it. And hopefully, when we go on tour, we will have the, like, space of mind and forethought to like plan something while we're on the road in different cities. Because guess what, a lot of Rosie Tucker fans, also trans and queer. So, so yeah, we would like to keep doing it for a long time.

Rosie Tucker 47:11
You're laughing because I was eager to get the mic back. And also, trans pizza party is so cool. It's so cool. for so many reasons. One of them is like, is like trans as an umbrella term, like we got every every gender every type of way of relating to gender and to sexuality. Like we got poly people, we got monogamous people, like, we got, you know, we got to lesbians, we got the vize. Like, we got everybody we got gay guys have in here, like we have so many different ways of relating to identity. And I think that in queerness, some times and this is not, this is not a dig at all. But sometimes that can be kind of like come to this event that is like specifically about this type of person trying to do this type of thing. But what is so cool, I don't know why. But like, just just keeping it simple, maybe has meant that it's just like this huge, vast group of different sorts of people who are all hanging out with different interests and like, like, we got like, I don't know so many people who play video games, so many beautiful women who played video games coming to trans pizza party anyways. So it would have been smart to conclude when Wolfie was done talking. But I love all of the different forms that transness can take. And it is just it's just so sick to experience that firsthand.

Kevelle Wilson 48:49
Solidarity is awesome solidarity rules. So I am sadly out of questions for you. Do you have anything else that you wanted to talk about that I did not touch upon?

Rosie Tucker 49:04
I don't think so. I really enjoyed all of your questions. Thank you so much for giving so much attention and care to the music and for thinking up such interesting stuff to talk about.

Kevelle Wilson 49:17
And can you remind the listeners one more time where are you going to be tomorrow? Yes,

Rosie Tucker 49:20
tomorrow I am going to be at the pinhook in Durham and an artist named Rhodes baby is going to be playing songs before me. So it'll be really fun.

Kevelle Wilson 49:37
Thank you all for tuning into this interview. You can check out at our interviews at wknc.org/podcast and click on off the record. Off WKNC 88.11 rally. Thank you for listening and take care