Off the Record

Off Belay 0:16
What's good everyone, you're listening to WKNC 88.1 FM HD one Raleigh. We are a student run, nonprofit radio station based out of North Carolina State University. I am DJ Off Belay and this is the alt rap pipeline Deep Cuts, where we interview some of the up and coming talent of the alt rap underground. Today, I'm here with Scubadiver. What's up, man? How's it going?

Scubadiver 0:39
Yeah, that's so sick. Thank you again. This is awesome.

Off Belay 0:41
Yeah. So normally, the alt rap pipeline is just my little radio show Mondays at five, you've seen I've tagged you a few times, but this is the first installment of Deep Cuts. So thank you for being the first person I've interviewed, you know. Yeah. So why don't you talk a little bit about what got you into music and started making music?

Scubadiver 0:58
I've been making music for a long, long time. I think it's, since I was like a kid, like, you know, when I'd have those little, like fruity loops, apps or whatever, and just mix stuff around, right. And I think at first it was just like, something to you know, push, creativity, cuz I've always been like a creative guy, right? But it grew into something that's like, I got better and better at it to the point where I could like formulate ideas, and make them uniquely me and finish them and be 100%. And not make it sound like unfinished, right. And then it started turning into this whole, like, oh, I can do whatever I want. And I'm gonna have the skills to like mix and you know, produce and everything. I can take all these weird ideas and just put them in my music. And I think that's where it kind of stems from, as why I love it so much, and why I've been doing it for so long, you know?

Off Belay 1:44
Yeah. So do you feel that having the skills of not only being able to rap, but also produce your own beats and make your own music? Do you think that gives you a little bit more of an opportunity to express yourself on your music?

Scubadiver 1:57
Yes.

Off Belay 1:59
Yeah, I mean, I can tell you do a really good job of sort of complementing your rapping with your production skills. I think, you're 17 right? So, it's crazy that even though I don't really relate to your music fully, and like the stuff you're rapping about, even just you being genuine on your music really connects with me, and I don't know, I feel like it's sort of a trap smaller artists fall in where they're just like rapping about stuff that you can definitely tell is not genuine to them. You know, it sort of sticks out.

Scubadiver 2:29
Oh, yeah. 100%.

Off Belay 2:31
But like you said, it's also nice for the artists to just sort of be able to freely express and just make honest music.

Yeah, sort of like with that. How did you get the name Scubadiver?

Scubadiver 2:43
Um, I used to make music on like SoundCloud, and it's all privated now, it's sucks so bad. It was like, early 2018 or something, right. And like, I would just post like little demos, or instrumentals, or just something. And it was all like the worst stuff that I've ever made, right? But like, you know, grew into what I am now. And like, I just thought of the stupidest name possible. Like that was really it because you like, normally when you're like a kid or something, you got to think you're thinking of like the coolest name ever, right? Like when I'm making Xbox gamertag or something. It's got to be cool, right? But for me, I did the exact opposite. I was like, what is the first thing that pops into my head? Right? And it was just Scubadiver. That was the first thing, it was stupid. It was weird. And it kind of just grew on me because I don't know, man. I just stuck with it. Like I could have changed it so many times. But I just stuck with it. I don't know, something about it, man. Like when I think of Scubadiver, I don't even think of like, you know, an actual scuba diver. I just think of me. So it's like, I don't know. It's interesting.

Off Belay 3:45
Yeah, and just fact, like you said, for instance, you said you started in 2021 making music or?

Scubadiver 3:51
Yeah, it was like late 2020 I released a mixtape, but I took that off because it's kind of horrible. I might remaster it one day, but 2021 is when I started releasing stuff, taking it seriously, you know, got some traction on like Tik Tok and all that. So, yeah.

Off Belay 4:06
Okay, should we back up now? All right. So since you sort of deleted that off SoundCloud so Apple Cider Ranch is sort of like your first official release?

Scubadiver 4:17
Yes sir.

Off Belay 4:18
I feel like for a first release, I know you said like you had the mixtape that you took down but still it's super well polished and am I right in saying you have no features, or you have like one feature on it? It's pretty like,

Scubadiver 4:29
Yeah I got it was pretty sparse. I got one feature on it for No Oath just because I want like I was so obsessed with having like, just random people on my songs or just like extra voices because I thought like it was just me it would sound lonely, but like I didn't have any clout. So I just like, I made like a TikTok or something like anybody want to be on this project. Like I just want to hear some people. Right. And that happened. Poser Boy and he's pretty dope, and yeah, that's like the only feature on the project. I don't even know it's, it's crazy. But, yeah.

Off Belay 4:58
Yeah, um, so I guess you kind of touched on it you said you didn't really have any clout so it's harder to reach out to people. But I was wondering if like that's sort of what changed? Was like you had the like clout to reach out to people? Or sort of like you just started wanting to invite more people on. I was just curious about how like, your music making process has changed from Apple Cider Ranch now to Godspeed To was just like, full of features and it's not even just like features are thrown on for the name. I feel like they all serve the song really well, that they're on. Yeah, like the song you got with Shy High. I feel like I mean, he still has like his Shy High sound when he comes in. Yeah, rambling with the intro, but it's still like he's on a Scubadiver song for sure.

Scubadiver 5:41
Like yeah, that's that's a huge compliment. Yeah, I was always inspired by like, you know how Kanye gets like a bunch of people on like, his albums? And like Chief Keef on Hold My Liquor. That would not have worked if it was another artist, you know what I mean? But like, it's, you know, so it's like, I always got inspired by that. But like, in Apple Cider Ranch time, it was like, I didn't have anybody, you know, I mean, like I was, it was just me, like me and my, like, four monthly listeners or whatever, when I was pumping out just random albums, because I thought it was cool, right? And like, then, you know, when I get a bit of traction, it's like, oh, I have all these people hitting me up from DMs and I can use their voice in different ways and put them as features and like Frank Sativa on Junior Ballot on Godspeed To like he has such he's such like a smooth voice, right? And putting him on this like smooth like almost electric piano esque synth, right? It's like awesome, Shy High, obviously bro. Like, I'm not gonna lie to you, bro. I was scared to ask for like a Shy High feature. Because like, he's so much bigger than me. Like he he's clouted out, right. Yeah. So I DM'd him I was like, "Oh, it's okay if you say no, bro." But like, I have this song and like, I can only hear you on it. Like this is a Shy High like beat kind of, right? In like a way right, the same vibe. And he was like, bro, don't even hesitate, send it over. And like two days later, I get this verse back. And I was like, I was like, jumping up and down in my room listening like, Oh, my God. Oh, my God. It was it was so good. And yeah, I think. Yeah, I think features have always I've always wanted to have features on music, it was just a matter of incorporating them in some way. So yeah.

Off Belay 7:07
Yeah. And I don't I don't remember where I saw you say this, I think it was on TikTok or some Instagram story or something. But you said you used to sort of like, or maybe not even used to just now you sort of hesitate from collaborations just because you move so fast. And it's like a lot of the time you have to wait for people to send.

Scubadiver 7:24
That's yeah, that's true. Always. I don't know, I think what it is, is I've kind of gone into a new space of music where, like, for Godspeed To it was like making a couple songs. And then like, wait, hold on, I'm in the middle of an interview. Geez. Anyways, I was in the middle of making a couple songs. And like, you know, I would I would make these things now and build them from the ground up. And then I would like, like, there'd be like 15 songs and I go down to 10 or something, right. But now what I'm doing is I'm making constant of these, like little demo songs. And the ones that have the real potential, like build them up. And it's almost like, I'm like moving from song to song so much. And like if I'm sending a feature out, like and they don't get back to me in five days I've already finished the song. You know what I mean, like, it's like, because I'm working so much. And maybe that's maybe that's a good thing. But like, it's it's like, I don't know, because I've got I guess I've gotten more confident in my voice too. So it's like, I can use it. I don't need I don't really need that extra feature on there anymore. You know what I mean, even though they're really dope. So yeah, I think. I don't know. It's just, it's just me working fast, man. I don't know.

Off Belay 8:35
Yeah. That's fair. I feel like you put out so much music. It's, I mean, I don't I feel like in the underground scene. I don't even know if like, if the underground scene is even a thing anymore, just because how many people are out there? You know what I mean? But I feel like in the music that I listened to the small artists, you just released so much more music, especially with Oskar Tate.

Scubadiver 8:56
Oh, yeah.

Off Belay 8:57
It just sort of doubles up to feel like every few months, new Scubadiver

Scubadiver 9:01
Yeah, for real.

Off Belay 9:03
I don't know, do you think that's sort of, you're out of the usual, like out of the normal with your peers in the scene with releasing music with how you do it? Or do you think everyone just has their own different thing?

Scubadiver 9:15
I think it's interesting because when I look at myself, I don't release enough. Obviously with Oskar Tate, I don't think of Oskar Tate as like an add on to Scubadiver. I think of it as its own separate little entity of just demos and stuff I put out, right? And obviously, I'm making so much music. There's stuff that you don't even hear on Oskar Tate. There's stuff I you know, producer people, there's stuff that are in songs on my files. There's stuff on like, the actual Scubadiver stuff, right? I make so much music that like, you know, sometimes there's not really an outlet to put it out on so it's like Oskar Tate or something, but like, in terms of like Scubadiver, I feel like I don't even produce that much. I mean, I mean, you know, put out as much music because say there's someone like, you know, you know Perry Maysun, right?

Off Belay 9:56
Yeah, bro.

Scubadiver 9:57
That dude releases so much music, it's actually crazy. He released like two albums. He's releasing a mixtape and another album all this year. It's like four projects and then singles in between. I'm like, can you like chill out? Like, seriously? Because here's the thing he's releasing, so, it's like, oh my god. And then like, I look at somebody like Shy High, right? And he releases maybe once, or once a month, or once every two months. And it's like, Oh, you gotta release more, but you got so much but like, yeah, I don't know. I, myself, I feel like I release a little bit less than other people. But it's interesting to see how other people see it. It's really cool.

Off Belay 10:29
Yeah. How do you feel that like social media and I guess especially Tik Tok, because that's how I found you, how do you feel like that influences not only like releasing music and like, giving fans what they want, but also just making music? Because I feel like nowadays, music is all getting a lot shorter, and a lot, something we've been talking about in the radio is it gets a lot louder nowadays we have to like cut down people's audios. It's just like kind of fighting for the short attention span I feel like you're a lot different than all your songs are like three, to four, to five minutes. How do you feel that like social media changes your like music making process?

Scubadiver 11:05
That's actually a sick question because I think about this all the time, right? 'Cuz TikTok it's so like, it's so short attention span, right? You gotta you got to get people with a 15 second clip or less right? Yeah, I feel like with TikTok just all the stuff that goes around is not is normally like you know, the trending sounds or like you know, like the hyper pop or like the Playboi Carti edit thing, right? And so I think that actually transforms itself into that high mixing and mastering is what you're saying is because like the bass boost on these audios for TikTok, which originally started out is just something like get people's attention. It's like subconsciously over all these years go into people's heads like this is normal. Kinda. I think I feel that too little bit is like, the bass needs to be louder or something, you know what I mean?

Off Belay 11:48
Yeah.

Scubadiver 11:48
And like the shorter platforming. I mean, it can work you know, I mean, like Shy High, he's got like, two minute songs, and they feel, they feel complete, right?

Off Belay 11:55
Yeah.

Scubadiver 11:55
But like, when I make like a two minute song, I feel like I should add more, you know? I feel like there should be an outro or an intro or something. And like, I don't know. It sucks, how almost every one of my songs comes out to like, three minutes or four, because it's not going to get playlisted but it's also like, it's very true to me, you know what I mean? Because if it was just cut down, it would feel like, it would feel like a, like a mini TV series being cut down to a movie. You know what I mean, like, it didn't, it doesn't feel complete in that sense to me, like, a lot of people aren't doing outros, people are going, you know, two courses, one verse, you know what I mean?

Off Belay 12:27
Yeah.

Scubadiver 12:27
it's like, there can be more to this song, when I'm, when I'm building a beat. And I hear this, like little chop I do, if I put some chords over it, and I'm like, Oh, wait, these chords fit good with this chop. And, you know, this guitar sample fits amazingly, with the string samples, right. And I just lengthen it out, and I add more layers on top of it. And then, you know, before you know it, it's a whole nother beat switch stemming off of this one string section that I made just to accent, you know, some guitar and it's a completely different song by the end, that's so awesome. But nobody really does it too much anymore, which really sucks. I think, you know, people are moving, you know, it's more commercially viable, right? Like it is, you know, you get more playlisting, you get more, you know, strings, people are replaying your song because it's too short. But like, you know, it's like, I feel like, you know, if you can do it, and you can make it work, do it, like Shy High, prime example, amazing with the two minute songs, but I feel like if you're, if you've got a really good song, like don't be afraid to drag that out, you know, like, like, Runaway, one of Kanye's like, most iconic songs. It's nine minutes. It's like 10 minutes long, right? Like, the outro of that song is like two times longer than some songs that are blowing up on Tik Tok, right. So it's like, I mean, I think it's about the art and I think, you know, Tik Tok and all these, you know, you know, social media is that, you know, have these high energy, low... What's the word, low, I don't know. Attention, low attention span, like music and stuff, right? Like, it's like it kind of it kind of kills the art in a way but at the same time, I get it, you know, I really do get it but I don't know, man. I mean, it's a, it's a crazy influence. It's like you would think it maybe be like, Oh, it's a little bit, but bro, people are making like two minute songs, less than two minutes. More people are picking up their vocals and speeding up their songs than ever, you know what I mean.

Off Belay 12:27
Yeah, yeah.

Scubadiver 13:53
Cuz that's like a thing that happens. It's like, I don't know. I think it's a crazy influence. That's like, it's legitimately changing kind of the underground scene and making more people listen to these interesting things than ever, you know what I mean, because I mean, weird audios pop up all the time. People get used to them and they just listen to them, you know what I mean.

Off Belay 14:31
Yeah.

Scubadiver 14:32
It's, it's crazy. It's very interesting. I love it a lot. But you know, it does kill art in a way.

Off Belay 14:37
Yeah, I feel like with what you're saying with how it's letting more interesting music be seen by more people. I feel like, in the same sense that music getting shorter, it's even better now to sound weird and not sound normal. So sometimes that plays in too.

Scubadiver 14:50
Yes, yeah.

Off Belay 14:51
Yeah, I liked how you brought up Shy High cuz he's just like, the prime example of, I feel like he goes so hard on the social media and Tik Tok stuff where like, before he even releases a song, even I know all the words to it, and I'll be playing a song as it releases and I'm already singing along. I'm like, how does he? How does he do this?

Scubadiver 15:09
It's great. It's great marketing. Yeah.

Off Belay 15:10
Yeah, but then I think it even. Yeah, I actually don't know, I was gonna say, it probably takes more talent or more like, care, to do a longer song but I feel like there's, it's, there's, It takes skill to do both, you know, you got to be catchy and really condense it to have something be that short.

Scubadiver 15:28
Yeah.

Off Belay 15:28
I feel like probably because you're doing all the production on your music too, it gives you a lot more freedom to like, like you said, like, if you just like the chords of one song, you can stretch it out. And then by the end, it'll be an entirely new song after you've been playing with it.

Scubadiver 15:41
Yeah.

Off Belay 15:42
It's probably something that helps a lot.

Scubadiver 15:45
100%

Off Belay 15:48
Yeah, um, feel like one thing I appreciate that you do, too, is the whole album release. That's just something I feel like might be lost soon, is just the album rollout. Like, the Apple Cider Ranch is just like a completely different vibe to Stealing Traffic Cones, which is just like short and condensed and just like, what's going on here, and then the next one's got to too, like, it's so, it's, it's nice when it's, kind of gives me like Tyler The Creator vibes where you just like switch up every new album, like Igor to Flower Boy to Wolf is just different.

Scubadiver 16:18
Yeah, yeah, I know what you mean, yeah.

Off Belay 16:21
It's, yeah. What were you gonna say, sorry?

Scubadiver 16:23
I don't, oh, I just, I think the album format is so good. Like, I, okay, here's the thing. I think the album, it's probably like, personally, me, my favorite medium of art. Like it beats movies, it can beat a TV show for me, like just an album, bro. Like, I feel like, you know, you got some artists out there, you know, Black Midi, right? Probably, I don't know, probably. Black Midi bro. Their albums are crazy. You know what I mean? And it's like, in every song transition to the next, and it's all different, but it all is cohesive. And it's like, perfect, right? And you got other artists that pump out like, 30 Song albums of the same song. And it's like, oh, man, you know, I feel like people just, and you know, it's, it's like that thing we said again, where like, the culture is kind of going to shorter songs. You, you barely see albums, like over 30 minutes from these newer artists. And that's because, you know, it's more, you know, commercially viable or whatever. But like, man, albums are so good. Like, just, just the feeling of like, listening to an album where it's cohesive, and it's different and it's creative, but it has all these quirky bits and outros and intros that are like very glorious like, like Igor, bro. The first time I listened to Igor, I thought I was dying. Like, it was so good. Like, it was like, like, all these little chords. It was so weird. And it was the it was the most insane thing because that was like, one of the first albums I listened to in full when I started getting into music. So it was like, I started with like, the, one of the coolest things ever. And like, bro, just like hearing all that's so inspiring. It's because it just takes you on like a literal journey. And that sounds so pretentious and cliche, but it does, like it literally, you know, from Igor's Theme, to like, Are We Still Friends? You're like, dang, that was, that was, that was crazy. There was some weird sounds in there. It made sense. And, oh god, I mean, I could talk about like different albums all day. I just, I really, really hope they don't die. Because like, you know, streaming kind of kills it a bit. I think streaming can help by like, you know, you know, spotlighting albums like they do singles a little bit more or something, but like, man, the albums are crazy. And like, if you find the right one, it can literally be the soundtrack for a movie.

Off Belay 18:31
Oh yeah.

Scubadiver 18:31
You know what I mean, like it can highlight a part of your like, life. And it's just, it's great.

Off Belay 18:35
I feel like one of my favorite things to do is whenever I go on, like vacation, or like go on a trip, I'll pick a new album to be like, I'm gonna listen to this while I'm here. And then whenever I come back to the album, like you said, it's like the soundtrack to my life. Just like going back.

Scubadiver 18:48
That was, yes sir, that was two years ago, I took a, it was a summer trip to Michigan, bro, I listened To Pimp A Butterfly for the first time. That album is like very heavy lyrically, right? But just the first time I listened to it, I was just kind of like listening to it, and the beats, and the jazz, and like, oh, this is nice, bro. Blacker the Berry was my favorite song for such a long time because like, even though the lyrical subject is like, I can't personally relate to it, you know what I mean, but like, bro, the energy, the beat, that like jazz switch up where it's like at the end, like, people don't talk about that. Like, that, that outro of that song, where it's almost jazzy. It's like, it's like, oh my god. So like, bro, like, I know exactly what you're talking about. And like, yeah, it's great. I love albums so much.

Off Belay 19:32
Yeah, it always is like, I guess it might be riskier like you said, it's not commercially viable. And if you are releasing like an hour long album and someone's not into it by the first two tracks, how are they going to commit, I guess? I guess it makes you really want to like deliver off the bat. I'm just looking at the Godspeed 2, like, tracklist, feel like starts off- I mean, actually, it starts off with Collaborate and Jimi Hendrix, cuz they're both like, high energy, you know, side of it

Scubadiver 20:02
High energy, yeah

Off Belay 20:02
And then you go into Mortal Solo, which is just not the, like, definitely not.

Scubadiver 20:06
Bro, it's like, it's like apocalyptic and like, so, and it transitions and like, I love albums that just have that weird flow because like, like, I'm, I'm trying to think about it like, you know, when you listen to I'm not going to try and gas myself up, but Godspeed 2 like, when you go to Die In Your Own Arms, that fourth song. And you're like, thinking of like, what comes up next. Like it's almost like a map, you can visually kind of hear what comes- or not, I don't know how to explain it. But to me, it's like, I don't know, like, when you hear that, like those chords of Dying In Your Own Arms, you're like, oh, this, this fits into this part. And the thing that, that came before it makes sense. And you remember the structure of the album after you're done with it? Because like, it was so interesting, in sort of a creative way, right? And like, I'm not trying to gas myself up. I'm sorry. It's coming off so bad right now. But like,

Off Belay 20:51
I mean, this is the time, this is the time to gas yourself up.

Scubadiver 20:54
Yeah. This is the time but yeah, like, you know, I feel like that type of thing is amazing. And that's what really makes it good. Also, I wanna make this analogy real quick. Because like, talking about you know, how artists don't really, don't think, um, you know, albums are commercially viable, and that's probably true at first, but like, I'll make an analogy to Breaking Bad, right. Now that show, I saw an interview with Bob Odenkirk, Saul Goodman, best character of all time. He, he said that Breaking Bad wasn't popular for like the first three seasons, right? Now looking back, you know, 15 years later, it is like one of the biggest shows, and people are talking about it. And it's the best show of all time in many people's eyes, right? I think that's the same thing with an album, I bet when The College Dropout came out, people thought it was a pretty cool listen, you know, and then like, 15 years later, it's a 10 for everybody. Whole Lotta Red is like, the closest thing we've gotten to that where it's like 2020 It was very polarizing. And now you got the gadget allele and you got all these people. Yeah, I mean, so I think it's like, you know, at first for an underground artists, it might not be perfect to release an album, you might want to just keep doing that single train. But for the, for the legacy and for the culture, when people look back in like 20 years, and they look at that album or mixtape you put out with that hour of music on it that like highlighted a part in their life. They're gonna be like, yeah, that was a solid album. And I remember that. Like, I just, there's something about that. That's just perfect.

Yeah I think you put that really well. It's way, way better for the long run. And like the legacy, I like how you said that.

Yes sir

Off Belay 21:11
Like, yeah, even just like your two year run you got right now, the three album legacy is already like, I don't know. Solid, solid. Yeah, I feel like, I mean, we've already sort of touched on this, how you change with each album. I do like how you have sort of like concept-y albums, if that makes sense. Especially Stealing Traffic, like, kind of leave up a lot for interpretations in that one, especially with all the weird like, I guess skits you call them like coming in and out, talking to yourself. I feel like that's something you can't really do in a single like, you kind of have to do that sort of stuff in an album.

Scubadiver 22:37
Yeah, I, it adds such like, way more flavor too, because I mean think about it like, bro, there's, like, I think people just don't realize like, half the reason like a, like a concept album is like good is because it kind of, I'm trying to think how to word this. But it's like, if the concept is strong enough, you can really kind of like, it almost has like a humor to it. And it gives the album life, or it gives, or if the concept is very serious, like To Pimp A Butterfly, you know, even though you have those, like fun moments in there, like, you know, the, for free, you know, or he's rapping over this jazz thing, right? It's like, you know, this poem throughout the album, it keeps you hooked. It's very serious. And it's like, it gives the album like a life, you know what I mean, it's not soulless. It's not like, you know, the first track fades out, and the second track. Second track comes in with the same Trap Beat, you know, and then it fades out, and it's the same thing. Maybe it was an interlude of, you know, you know, somebody rapping over like acapella or something, you know, I mean, but like, it's, you know, these like interludes with this personality. It really, I just, I think they're really underrated. People need to do that more often, man, like, very often, it's crazy.

Off Belay 24:13
I like how you made the distinction where you can sort of be serious like To Pimp A Butterfly or just be fun with it. Like with, like, Traffic Cones, doesn't have to be like, this concept album is game changing, and no one's ever done anything like this.

Scubadiver 24:26
Uh huh. Yeah. 100% you just gotta have fun with it. It's like, here's the thing if you're, if you're making an album and you have like an idea, and you're like, I want this to sound like, bro like, I don't know, some sort of like mad villainy-esque party or something. Right? You're just gonna, you have this vision in your mind. Just go for it. Because I mean, anything that you think of, if you complete 100% like in your mind, and like you execute it perfectly, it's gonna be a good album, no matter what, because it's your idea and you think it's good. And that means, you know, if you think it's good, obviously you're going to, you know, think it's dope when it comes out, but like, other people are going to recognize that you had this idea and you completed it perfectly, and it's out there. And it's, you know, it's, it does what it does, it doesn't need to be serious, doesn't need to be, it doesn't need to have like all these different, you know, commentaries on like, you know, serious topics, it can just be a fun, out there, a little vibe that you put on the car, you know, maybe with your friends, you know, at the beach or something, you play a couple songs, like it's just, it's something cool.

Off Belay 25:20
Yeah. Yeah, definitely, I think I just wish more people would be putting it out. But I guess it does put more like serious, it makes like the releases more serious, which maybe if you're like, a small up and coming artists? I don't know, it just might put you in a box. But I don't know, I think we both agree people need to be releasing more albums. Where do you sort of see yourself, like, I mean, you've only been doing it for like, a few years. I guess where do you see yourself now in your career? And sort of like, what do you want to be doing in the next year?

Scubadiver 25:54
Man. Man, shoot, it feels like I haven't, like, I don't even know, man, it feels like I'm like, right now. At like the highest, the highest monthly listeners that I have ever been. Right. But like, it doesn't feel like that, it feels almost like, you know, where I was a year ago, where I was just making music in my room and putting it out, like, almost like, you know, I've grown production-wise and all that, but it just feels like, you know, I'm just like that same dude in the room making the music, right. So it's interesting, I don't know where I'll be a year from now. I'm in senior year right now, I still got school and everything. A year from now I'll probably be in college or some sort of internship or, you know, whatever. And like, I'll still be doing music all the time. But it's gonna be interesting to see where you know, if the numbers add up or something like that, you know what I mean? Which it doesn't really matter. But it's just very interesting. But yeah, like, right now I just see myself as just the same kid, you know, a few more people looking at him.

Off Belay 26:47
Yeah, it must be sort of, not confusing, but just like, weird to have all this like, clout, I guess how you said, but just like, where it's only really online, and like, you still have to go to school. And it's, you've said in a few of your songs. I don't know if it's still the same. But I feel like in a few of the songs in Apple Cider Ranch, you just like mentioned the fact that no one in your class is going to hear these songs so you can talk, like, crap about them, it doesn't really matter. Like.

Scubadiver 27:15
Yeah, that uh, that changes a bit when you get a little bit of, you know, I don't, because here's the thing, I've never told anybody, like verbally like, Hey, man, I make music, right? But people just find out. They just know, like, for some reason, I never really thought of it. Like, you know, if a Tik Tok gets like a million views or something, and people just see it from my school, and they notice it. I've never really thought about that. But it is very, that happens. You know what I mean? And like, I haven't told anybody, but it feels like almost everybody knows now, which is crazy. But it's cool. You know, they're not. They're not like, Hey, man, send me a beat. I mean, some people are like that. And it gets kind of annoying, but you know, I get it. But like, you know, they're pretty chill about it. We'll still talk about something weird at school, or just like a project we got coming up. You know what I mean? It's nothing crazy.

Off Belay 28:01
Yeah, I don't know. I don't know where you're located. But I was just wondering if you've done any like, shows, or like, live performances, or if you have any of those sort of, like, coming up or anything like that?

Scubadiver 28:13
Oh, yeah, I'm in Indiana right now. In the middle of nowhere, by the way, like, it's just corn. That's all it is. It's just like, you know, like farms and stuff. And it's a vibe, you know, I mean, it's, I got like, a farm with a bunch of corn, like maybe like, less than, like, less than a quarter mile from my house, bro. And it's got like, a nice sunset. You know, I mean, it's pretty chill, take some people there, you know, take a little bit, girl there. You know, I mean, you know, have some fun. But like, it's like, it's a very, very boring city. And I've actually, I've never done a show. And the truth is, I'm actually petrified of doing a show because imagine, like, I like, you have this energy, but it just comes off corny or something, like what if it flops? You know, it's like, it's such a big fear, right? I think that just, you know, shoot, man, I don't even know. It's just, it's a scary thought. But I'd love to do a show one day, I love to do a show. It's really chill, I talk, I talk this talk about this a lot. And like my lives on Instagram or something, but like, bro, if I just set up three or four couches on the stage, and just invite people up, and we just chill out. And I get some like tacos or something, you know, and we're just talking and the music is still playing. I'm still performing it. But it's more like a hangout. And it's more just like having fun with your favorite artists or one of their favorite artists. I shouldn't be, I shouldn't be egotistical about it. But like, it's just having fun and hanging out with one of your favorite artists instead of just like, watching them perform like a puppet. You know what I mean? I just love the fact of just like, being even ground. You know, that's better.

Off Belay 29:31
I feel like I mean, I'm in Raleigh, so it's definitely probably way bigger than wherever you are in Indiana. I feel like there's definitely, I don't know. I noticed there's like a certain type of performances that people were always going to and it's more like, not like you were saying where it's like hanging out with more artists, your favorite artists. It's more of the fact like I'm trying to get my sound out. So like you're saying it is a lot more of like a performance. I guess, it's in the name, live performance, but people are trying to put on it, like, hey, this is me. I'm giving you like a snippet of what you can find online. It's more like an advertisement than like a fun event. Until you get to the size where it's like, your name is bringing the tickets.

Scubadiver 30:09
It's like status.

Off Belay 30:10
Yeah. Yeah.

Scubadiver 30:12
I think, I think, um, I do think that like underground shows, they just need to be redone. You know, I mean, there's some shows that like, you get some people there, and it's such a vibe, like, you get, like, 100 or so people in there and you're just vibing out and you have those numbers to just, you know, pump the room up with energy. But like, if you're performing, like, you know, less than 20 people or something, just make it a vibe, you know what I mean? Just like, have fun with it. Do some, like, do some like comedy or something, just some crowd control, be fun with it. Like, I think, I don't know, if I'm gonna do a live show, especially if it's like a smaller show, not like opening for anybody or something crazy. Like, it's, it's going to be more of a vibe than just, like, just like a stage performance. It's going to be like, bro, like Rock Paper, Scissor competitions on which song plays next type of thing. It's gonna be like, I'm bringing food and I'm handing it out to people. It's gonna be like, you know, bring people up on stage and just like having a dance off or something stupid, like, it's just gonna be a vibe. That's what I really want to do. And like, you know, make it just, make it a hang out.

Off Belay 31:11
I feel like I got similar vibes. I went to a Young Wabo listening party, and it was definitely sort of vibes you're saying, it was for the Mirage. And it was just like, in his backyard in Virginia, it was like 12 people. Half of the people there ,all his friends were just like, hanging out. Yeah, just listening to the new album.

Scubadiver 31:30
I saw that on his Instagram story, too. I saw it on his Instagram, bro I want to see, I want to meet Young Wabo so bad. We have a few songs in the vault. But like.

Off Belay 31:39
He's so nice. Like, I don't know, I've only met him twice because I've been to live shows and I've sort of talked to him on DMS with like getting clean edits and stuff like that, but he's just a, such a nice guy. I don't know. He like recognized me at the second show, I was not expecting that, just act like, and at The Mirage show, like, I don't know, there's like, maybe 20 of us but he still took time to like talk to everybody and ask them where they came from.

Scubadiver 32:02
Yeah, that's awesome. That's, Wabo's such a stand up guy, Wabo's amazing. He's, he is so chill, bro. He, he DM'd me one time. I remember he said something about like, he used to be a D1 player. Right? He was like, he was a, I don't, I don't know what he was. But he was, he's a big guy, right? But he was, used to be a bigger guy. He used to bench 405. I was like, Are you kidding me? Because that's more than my squat. And I'm like, I'm a pretty big guy. You know what I mean.

Off Belay 32:27
He's tall. I remember. I remember that. Or when I saw him. He's, he's a big guy.

Scubadiver 32:32
He's a beast. I love Wabo.

Off Belay 32:34
Yeah, what other sort of like, underground artists that you sort of vibe with, but not necessarily ones you've collabed with, we've already talked about Shy High and Perry Mason.

Scubadiver 32:44
Yeah, shoot. Me think, you know, I actually, I really do vibe with Shy High on like, not even like a collaborator level. Just like as, he's got his own sound. You know what I mean? It's like, almost like, shoot, I don't even know how to explain it. It's very chill. It's almost like, it's, I can't really compare him to anybody. When I listen to him, I just think of Shy High. Like, he just has his own sound, which I think is amazing. Frank Sativa, he's got his own sound, it feels like every song he puts out, even if, even if like, you know, it's just a slower or faster or just any type of song, he makes it work for him and it's so good. Gao the Arsonist, oh my gosh, like, like, bro, Sludge God, for real, he, he got some crazy, but his, his album. What is it called? I'm blanking on it. It was, it's not Autopsy of a Degenerate which was his first one but it's, it was the second one. It's got the song Home on it. I don't know, I'm really blanking and I'm sorry, yeah, if he's hearing this for whatever reason, bro that one before, I know, it was um, it was his earliest one. Or no, his sorry. His, yeah, the one he released like, just now. Yes. Artifact. That thing is crazy.

Off Belay 33:57
Beautiful and Bleed. Downloaded on that.

Scubadiver 34:01
Oh, yeah. Bleed is so good. I love that song. Like, I think Gao, I think they're like, there are like three people in the underground that distinctly have their own sound and I'm trying to do that as well, where you know, I have my own distinguishable sound but it's Shy High, it's Gao, it's Overpaid. Those three people have their own sounds and whatever music they make, it can be out there as like rap or hyper pop or singer-songwriter. It can just be them, you know? I mean like, it's just them, like when you hear it, it could fit in anything that they make.

Off Belay 34:31
I think Overpaid has a really good like, I don't know. I want to say like, audio signature, like you can hear his voice, it's so like, the way he makes it, not even just his voice but yeah, just the way he sounds on every song it's, yeah, it's so, it's like a hyperpop, like.

Vocals down 10 DB. Yeah.

I'm scrolling through my, the alt right pipeline sort of file to see if I got any other ones you might know. You uh, do you know like Medhane?

Scubadiver 35:06
I, bro, he, what did he make? He, I know, I know him and I know I, it's a song, shoot, it's like a cover and he's like, near a car.

Off Belay 35:18
Oh Dolomeals, Dolomeals? Maybe, I played that one last week.

Scubadiver 35:22
I, shoot, that doesn't ring a bell, I don't know, I listened, I listened to him on Spotify in like 2020, but I had this, I had this giant phase of like, like Fortnite, Save The World bro, I don't even know like, the zombies one, not even like the regular. I had a phase now just listening to music on Spotify and play that game and like zone out and I remember he was in rotation, with this, with this like, one song that I listened to every time, I'll look it up but,

Off Belay 35:48
You listen to uh, Kwamzay?

Scubadiver 35:52
Yeah, Kwamzay, I do. Bro. Kwamzay is crazy. I love Kwamzay, Kwamzay is like, their production's very cool too, everybody they work with is amazing. Hold up, let me look, look them up real quick on my Apple Music. So I know there's just one song that I love from them. That's like always there. It is on their motherland EP, it was, I believe it was, how, yeah, How Do You Say Goodbye I believe is the song that I love by them, because that song, I mean they're just, they don't have a lot of stuff out, which sucks.

Off Belay 36:27
Yeah, even I don't really know a whole lot about them, but I know they have a, you know, Kwamzay do, does a lot of solo stuff too, I don't know if, say, All Caps does much solos.

Scubadiver 36:36
Yeah.

Off Belay 36:36
But it's always nice. I don't know. Yeah, like you said they don't have much out, they have like, two five minute EPs. Not five minutes, but five song EPS. Yeah, young Wabo is great. Redveil is great. Feel like Redveil is even breaking out of the underground now, like, you feel like, feel like he's, he's definitely the first person with the sort of sound of the underground that I heard and really got into.

Scubadiver 37:03
Bro. Yeah, it's that dude. I mean, it just seems like everything's going good for him, bro. Not gonna lie. Like I just, I love Redveil but like on some real stuff. Like, I'm kind of jealous. You know what I mean? Like, he's kind of, you know, I mean, like, I'm not going to try and like hide it right now, bro. Every artist who is going to hear this or anybody who is going to hear this. They're going to agree with me, bro. Oh, Redveil is a talented guy. But like, it could have been me, you know what I mean, I would take it, you know what I mean? For real. I love Redveil. He's great. But yeah, I think I speak for everybody when I say like, that type of like growth is just like, it's a dream. You know what I mean? Like, that is amazing. Where you're, you don't have to switch up your sound, people just like, vibe with it. You don't have to go pop. You don't have to switch up anything. You don't got to make your song short. It's just there. You know what I mean, Shoulder off of his new album is like one of my favorite songs by him. I don't know how long it is. I think it's on the longer side, like four minutes. Yeah, it's, I love that song. And there's a reason why it's my favorite.

Off Belay 38:03
Yeah I feel like I don't know. I'm sort of outside of the music part, like the creation part of the underground. But even still, I feel like there's so many nice people that are just willing to work. It seems like such a collaborative energy right now. Which I don't know if, I feel like that's not normal for rap.

Scubadiver 38:22
Yeah, it reminds me, somebody said this in one of my DMs or something, they said like, the underground scene right now kind of reminds me of that 2016 SoundCloud going on, you know, and I was like, That's very interesting. Because, like, obviously, you have all these different sounds coming together. Right? But it's like, you know, just like the personalities and people, it's almost like, there's like a, there's like a big like, 10 that you like recognize when you think of like, you know, the underground coming from like the Instagram and Tiktok promotion stuff. Right. And it's really, I think it's awesome.

Off Belay 38:53
It's so cool to like, just like find a new artist and then go through their like, vault and see that they have like features with all the other artists that I've been finding recently. It's, it's really cool. Like when you dropped with Perry Mason. That just makes so much sense. I don't know why. Yeah.

Scubadiver 39:12
Perry's dope. I love Perry. Actually, I hit him up on FaceTime to see if his mic was good quality. Like, before this interview, I was like, hey, Perry, because I called him and he was live or something. And he called me back. I was like, hey, Perry. Does this mic sound good? And I tap the mic a few times. And he's like, Yeah, and I switched to the one that was bad. And he's like, that's worse. And it's like, okay, thank you. And he got mad at me. Like, that's all you wanted to know. I hung up on him.

Off Belay 39:32
I talked to him a little bit in the DMs and he replied, I'm here to get this interview set up. Let me see. Yeah, I feel like we've talked about a lot of what I wanted to talk about with you. Anything you want to talk about that we didn't really touch on?

Shoot man, how you doing?

Pretty good.

Scubadiver 39:50
On a personal level.

Off Belay 39:55
I'm doing pretty good, sort of started a new semester. College. I feel like this semester, got a lot more going on. Seems like, like last semester I had was way more busy with classes and in my head, but now I have like, more stuff going on for myself, it's a real confidence booster, you know, instead of just being, going to classes, like.

Scubadiver 40:16
Yeah, that's awesome. Also your beard's dope, I wanted to just let you know that, I like the facial hair, it looks, it really suits you, you look really good, and that's, that's just me being genuine, not trying to gas you up.

Off Belay 40:28
I don't know. Like, right now I just have it out of laziness. Because if I shaved, then I have to start shaving like every week. Rather just grow it out.

Scubadiver 40:37
Nah, it looks good, it looks good.

Off Belay 40:39
I guess. I mean, Indiana, not much of a live music scene like you said, you have plans after, I guess you're doing yourself one more year, right?

Scubadiver 40:52
I just turned senior, so yeah I got like, a year.

Off Belay 40:56
Yeah, I guess you already said, plan is just to keep doing what you're still doing, any, any like, new up and coming releases, like albums that you have like, sort of the idea for, or?

Scubadiver 41:09
I got this one album. It's, I got the idea for it. Right. I got the concept. I got the sound, I got the style. And actually, it's kind of interesting. Yeah, right. Because Godspeed To, when I started it. I was very inspired by Radiohead, likec Kid A, all that ambient stuff, right, all the stuff that was out there and kind of had this like, vibe to it. Now I'm very inspired by like, jazz music, right. And I'm just like, incorporating all this jazzy stuff, whether it's like, almost like a bebop type thing, or it's more ride cymbals, or it's a saxophone solo, or, like, it's just very interesting, right? And, you know, what I used to do is listen to an album every night, like, before I go to sleep or something just like as a, it used to be like, you know, like Brockhampton, or just like Kanye or something just to put me to sleep, you know what I mean, but like, now I'm like, I think it was like three or four nights ago, I was like, well, I'm making this kind of jazz centered project right now. It's very jazzy, very, like, out there some weird time signatures and stuff on these like bridges. Why don't I just listen to some jazz music and like, subconsciously, you know, get all this information from these, like, you know, like John Coltrane, and all these people, right? And just like, you know, subconsciously, sort of implant that in my brain as I'm falling asleep. So like, when I wake up, I kind of have more ideas and more, you know, ways to incorporate it. Right. I noticed that a lot of jazz musicians, maybe it's because they were mastered for vinyl. But the trumpet is on like, the left side of the headphone, and the drums are all the way on the right. And it's very interesting. I don't know, man. I might have to use some of that, use some of that information.

Off Belay 42:39
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, like you said, before, having the concept in the sound, sort of the first step, seems like now you just got to put the time in and grind them out.

Scubadiver 42:49
Hundred percent. Oh yeah. I think also, like the artists who just released like, like Kanye going from Yeezus, to Life of Pablo, to like, you know, all these different albums, like those are the best type of artists because they're not really doing the same thing every time. That's what I want to do. 100% because I got so many ideas. It's crazy. I got this one idea for an album, it'd be like, really like folk centric, like acoustic guitars, maybe some like, you know, acoustic drums, almost like country inspired in a way, but like, got all these different sounds and like rock and rap and break beats and 90s and stuff, right? I just mesh it in a crazy way and have like an overall aesthetic. But, I really want to do that but, I don't know how to play guitar. So that's probably not going to come out for a while.

Off Belay 43:32
Yeah.

Scubadiver 43:32
But like I just had these ideas man like, like bro like, imagine like, an album where throughout the whole thing it's, you know how like kids see ghosts is very cohesive in the way that like, it fuses rock music and hip hop and like samples and like synths, like imagine like, an album that just has that cohesion of all these different genres like rock, and house music, and like electronic music, and hip hop, like just combined, bro. And then on top of that, you got these like, nice little outros that blend everything together. And like these little, you know, there's an overlying concept, it can be something as stupid as I had this album I did, where, it was before Godspeed To, I had this idea for another album, it was like a 30 minute album called Bank where it was just the plot, or the concept, was just about this guy who goes to a bank and he's waiting in line. And every other song or two there'd be like a, like a, like a little interlude of dude talking to somebody in line working at a bank or like waiting for their turn at the bank or whatever. And then over time, to the last track, you would find out that it's just a giant like, test and he's into some sort of like, like box, or like tube or something, and they're monitoring him and it's like, his reality breaks or something. And like, all this different like, conversations he had with these people at the bank foreshadowed it in some way. And they were trying to get into his psyche. And the last song was like a giant like, like, you know, interrogation or something. And this dude is freaking like, it was just such an interesting idea and like the, the instrumental palette would be very uncanny. Almost like Aphex Twin mixed with like rock music, like Rush mixed with like, You know, like some synth pop stuff. Like it was a cool idea and I still want to do that one day, but like, you know, like, I just have so many ideas. It's like, God, I just, oh, it's awesome, but I think that's, I think that's better though, is that I mean, music, mainstream music right now is sometimes very generic, right? Like, I just wish people would get weirder because if I can just think of that weird album and turn it into a cool thing right? Imagine what someone can do with like, their biggest like, idea, right? They could make literally the best album of the decade if they wanted to, but they don't do it because you know commercials, the labels, or anything bro. Just like do it, you know what I mean, put it out there, make something crazy, I'm running out of albums to like listen to and think about, you know what I mean? Like I just like, something.

Off Belay 45:45
Like nowadays it's like, whoa, which music, those weird experimental ones stick out way more. Like, my favorite album recently is By The Time We Get to Phoenix, I think I said that right, that Injury Reserve one.

Scubadiver 45:58
Oh yeah, bro, that album. Oh my gosh. Bro, top picks for you. I swear to God. I swear. Bro. I don't even know what that synth lead is. You know everything was like, (music noises), I'm like, what is that. It's like a flute, it's a guitar, it's a sample. And then bro, like, the train is still on schedule. It's like, jeez, like, that's like, that album is so hard. And bro, the first song too, where like it starts out with just like spoken word on the outside and like it's just like, almost like spoken word passage over this ambience. Then it turns to this like synth pop glitchy track where it's like, Ooh, okay. You know what I mean, it's like, we just we need more albums like that where it's weird, but it's focused and it's got like a concept and it's just, it's literally like, just a giant, like.

Off Belay 46:46
You know, like, it's very self contained where all the songs sound super crazy and experimental. But they all sound not like the same but they sounded like like they fit in the album. Well think, Rico Nasty. 100% too, like they're all super crazy and different, but they still sort of have like, a new sound that she's exploring.

Scubadiver 47:08
Shoot, man, I haven't even, I don't even listen to Rico nasty, but I'll do it for you

Off Belay 47:11
Another one. I feel like if you really liked By The Time I Get to Phoenix, do you listen to Standing on the Corner?

Scubadiver 47:20
Standing on the Corner, they uh, they have that song called Vomets, right?

Off Belay 47:25
Yeah, if you go back, I mean, they have two albums. They have the Standing On The Corner like self titled one. That one's like, it's, it's, like it's, like still experimental.

Scubadiver 47:36
Towers, yeah. It's kinda interesting.

Off Belay 47:38
But it's like if you sit down and listen to the other album, Red Burns.

Scubadiver 47:40
Yeah.

Off Belay 47:41
It's just two songs that are both 30 minutes long. It's like, it's like a play. It's amazing.

Scubadiver 47:48
Side X side Y. Oh my gosh. Bro that album freaking slaps.

Off Belay 47:55
Skip the Rico Nasty and hit the Red Burns. This is like, this is an experience

Scubadiver 48:00
Thank you, I'll definitely check that out.

Off Belay 48:02
Just makes me want them to make more music.

Scubadiver 48:05
That's awesome. That's what's up. Yeah bro, I think another conversation, like people in the underground, or just in general, the half is the album covers, bro. I saw this, Lil Baby released like a teaser for his new album cover coming out bro. That album cover sucked. I'm sorry, it was like, I think it's called, like I'm On Time or something, I don't know what the album's called. But it's him, in like this valley, and in the background is Mount Rushmore, Mount Rushmore with like four different faces of him, and there's goats eating grass next to him. And like sure, it's a cool visual, but like what is, like really? That's what you're gonna put on for like the music you worked two years on? You know what I mean? Something like Red Burns though, I'm looking at it right now. I've never heard this album, but it just makes me want to play it. Just the way that like, you know, it's like almost like a drawing, it's very cryptic, there's like a post-it note of some sort. It's just, it's so interesting, you know what I mean? And I had this album cover for Godspeed To, it's probably more interesting than the one, the one that's out now, but I think the one that's out now fits the album more, right? It's like, but like, just like albums, like, bro, Stealing Traffic Cones? That, that album cover? It's so weird if you look at it. Like it makes no sense. It's like, it's a vinyl, right? But it's got like a picture of some dude with a spoon on his mouth who's my friend, Evan, shoutout Evan. Um, and then, it's like, it's got this little yellow bar at the bottom for no reason, it just adds this aesthetic. And it's got this like little circle thing popping out from behind the picture. It's got this border, it's so weird. But it just, it gives it this like, interesting vibe. It's so much more cool than looking at, like if you're trynna make like an album cover that just looks like a vinyl, right? Like you can do that. But if you're making an album cover that looks like a vinyl and then adding stuff on top of it, then you got something cool, you know what I mean? You got something different, you got like a creative vision. And that's why I love making all my album covers, especially with Oskar Tate, bro. Oskar Tate album covers hit different, I love Oskar Tate album covers.

Off Belay 49:53
Vaporwave, vaporwave aesthetic vibes. Especially the, uh, the Dominick ones?

Scubadiver 49:59
I love, I love those covers, 'cuz there's, they make no sense.

Off Belay 50:03
Bro, Dominick is so cool.

Scubadiver 50:05
Bro, I love the Oskar Tate album covers, 'cuz like, I don't think about it too much, and it just like, it's just, it's just, I compile it and it just looks cool, like it just looks interesting. Dominick makes no sense. That cover should not exist, but it does and it works and it's awesome and it just, I don't know.

Off Belay 50:11
It flows so well too. Like, yeah, ugh.

Scubadiver 50:26
Vibe, yeah.

Off Belay 50:27
Man.

Scubadiver 50:31
Kiwi Lemon Kill Girl too, bro. I love that album cover. With like, I, I think that those like two, it's a boy and a girl just standing there and they're both like wearing a dress and a suit, right? That was like, from like a Snap story, like y'know the suggested Snap stories? Like, I just took a picture of that or something, that was like "These Two Got Married When They Were Fourteen!" or something. I just took a picture of it, made it black and white, slapped this little trapezoid in the back with a gradient. It looked so sick and it makes no sense but it just looks cool, like I think more people just need to make album covers that just represent the album, but not in like a cliche, like you know, if you have a, you know, an album called "The Goat" and you put a goat on your cover. If I, if I made the album like, y'know, if the album Dominick was just a picture of a dude named Dominick, I could probably make it go hard, but like this one's way more interesting, y'know what I mean? Like it's like, like Kids See Ghosts is the perfect example. Like, you, there's so many ways that album cover could've gone, just like imagine the aesthetic of the album is the perfect way to do it. Because, it's ambiguous, it's interesting, it gets people involved with a single frame, right? And it's like, it just, it's, it's like a snapshot of the world the album makes and it's great. I love it.

Off Belay 51:43
Yeah, I feel like even when you try to do something, I don't know if you tried to do something simple, with like The Jacob Batalon Tape cover, it's still like not just a picture of him, like you gotta give it some type of, I don't know, like.

Scubadiver 51:58
Like it's interesting, it's, it's weird, some covers are just like, you know, weird on like y'know like Ink on Matte is so simple. I don't know, but it gives a vibe, y'know? So it's like, it's just whatever, whatever creates that vibe, whatever matches the album, just go with that, y'know what I mean? Like JID The Forever Story? I love that album so much. I think that, like, like the album cover's dope. But I, if it was something like, shoot man, like I don't even know, I just think that like the colors and stuff don't match. And maybe that's just me nitpicking, I don't know. I'm, I'm sorry JID The Forever Story cover fans, it's a great cover, it's just I think it would work better on like another album. 'Cuz that album, when I, when I hear it I'm thinking of like, a very kind-of laid back, almost like, y'know smoke in the air, almost like a very, like a very brownish like lightish-color goin' on, it's like a very holy, almost like peaceful album in a way. And I just, I don't know, that's what I think of, I don't know. I just, I don't know, I don't know. I'm just ranting, I'm ranting. Sorry.

Off Belay 52:55
Yeah, I think, I don't know, album covers are definitely underappreciated, it's a dying medium. Um, I don't know. Probably just 'cuz streaming,

Scubadiver 53:04
Facts!

Off Belay 53:04
I don't know, you don't really see the album cover when you buy it. But, yeah uh like, I don't know if you're into vinyls, I know you do sampling, I don't know if you ever sampled from vinyls, but

Scubadiver 53:14
Oh yeah, I got, I got like a thing back there behind this door. I think there 'bout to be twenty. I don't got too much, but it's enough, y'know? I think the rarest vinyl I got though, I got OK Computer. Now that's what's up, I love that, I love it, I think

Off Belay 53:28
I got King Geedorah the other week, Take Me To Your Leader. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Scubadiver 53:35
Oh like, oh like, MF Doom? Oh yeah.

Off Belay 53:37
It came with like the little like, on the back

Scubadiver 53:39
Oh, that's so sick.

Off Belay 53:40
It came with like a sheet of paper with a bunch of things you could cut out, to like, fold and make the album cover. Yeah, I think that's also like,

Scubadiver 53:48
Yo, yo! Yo, that's so dope.

Off Belay 53:50
Also underappreciated.

Scubadiver 53:50
That's so awesome.

Off Belay 53:51
Thing, is like albums, definitely, but even like vinyl inserts. Like, if you're gonna make a physical release,

Scubadiver 53:58
Bro, hold up.

Off Belay 54:00
Gotchu.

Scubadiver 54:00
Give me one second, I'mma pull something out that's gonna blow your mind. One second. Hopefully I look good standing up, 'cuz I know, bruh.

Off Belay 54:17
Ohh shit, the No Oath.

Scubadiver 54:18
Bam, baby! Look at that, that's what's up. This is real too, I don't got my headset on, so I can't hear too much, but bro, hold up. Get this out of the packaging. It's uh,

Off Belay 54:30
Nice.

Scubadiver 54:31
Look at that. Double vinyl. It's actually real. It plays the music. It's, erm

Off Belay 54:36
Oh my god.

Scubadiver 54:38
There you go, you got the, you got the tracklist as well

Off Belay 54:41
Yeah, do you ever, I remember seeing it on one of your stories that you were gonna get a, I remember on one of your stories you said that you were gonna make that seven inch, or something with the Me and My Sins? Did that ever come to fruition? Did that ever happen?

Scubadiver 54:53
Oh yeah, I wanted to do that, but honestly I'm not gonna lie to you, I put stuff on my story after I think about it for five seconds and I don't do anything with it. Like, I just like have ideas and then I just post them. And the I just forget about them. Like, y'know what I mean? Yeah, I don't know. I'll probably do something one day. But, then again,

Off Belay 55:11
Yeah, there's definitely so much you can do when you're independent.

Scubadiver 55:14
Yeah, what are you gonna do?

Off Belay 55:15
Like, you're already doing so much, especially

Scubadiver 55:17
That's true.

Off Belay 55:18
Promoting on TikTok and Instagram. Like, I tried to do that with my like weekly radio show, like oh and even just posting like two times a week is uh, it's too much. I can't imagine like, doing multiple a day like you do on multiple platforms. I mean, how much of that is sort of like, how much of that is you just messing around on social media and how much of it is "oh I need to be engaging with people to like get my music going"?

Scubadiver 50:05
Shoot, man, I'll do like Tik, I'll do this thing where instead of just making a TikTok like whenever I feel like it, I'll just take an hour out of my day and make like thirty drafts. Just so I can like, if I'm at school or something and I'm like starting math class, I can like just go to a draft and upload it instead of just, y'know, being there like, "Hey, guys! I'm in math class, look at that! Here's my music" and then I type it out. I think TikTok is more like I kinda have to. I don't like to post too much, maybe like once or twice a day or something. Sometimes I'll go for like the ten a day, bro. Just pumping it out, why not? Y'know what I mean? But like, I don't like to do it too much, 'cuz it feels more forced. Instagram, though, is where I'm just like, I'm like out there, y'know what I mean? Like I'm just doing some weird stuff. Like, I'm just having fun with it, y'know what I mean? Most of the, most of the stuff that like y'know I post on my story, I posted on my story yesterday making an omlete with a song from JID's new album or something. Like, that was just, like I just thought of that. I was listening to JID's album while making an omlete, and I take a picture of the egg that I messed up, and I post it on my story with the song I listened to which was Kody Blu 31 which is like the best song off that album. And like, like, I don't know. It was just a five second thing and I did it and that's there now forever, so y'know. I think Instagram, I'm way more liberal with what I just put out there.

Off Belay 1:02:41
Yeah, I feel like it's good to have them seperated, where like you sort of feel like you have to do TikTok?

Scubadiver 1:02:41
Um, yeah

Off Belay 1:02:41
I guess TikTok sorta, it's like barely, like videos. Like, music videos but it's sorta like giving visuals to your songs. Have you ever thought about doing longer form, sorta like music video style things? Or just like visuals for songs?

I would love to, I would love to but, I don't really have time, y'know what I mean? Like, I could but it would probably take a whole afternoon to shoot it. And then I gotta edit it, which would take like a whole day. And then I'd have to y'know, promote it. And then it wouldn't really do anything. It's just, at that point, it's like, you pay somebody, right? But then it's like "Oh, I'm paying for this, I'm not even like to much of a part of it." I don't know, like, longer form content, it's cool. But I'm not in that position to do it right now, I'm a busy man. I got homework. I got, I got like school. I got to mix and master my music. I gotta, y'know, promote. I gotta hang out with my family. Bro, one thing I realized, like eating food and using the restroom and everything, it takes up so much of my day. Like, you would think you would write it off as like "Oh, five minutes." But bro, it's like you rack it up. It's like an hour and a half you're spending just downstairs in the kitchen eating or using the restroom or doing something. And that adds up and I can't make music for that hour and a half, y'know what I mean? It's like people don't account for that, there's some stuff that goes on that takes a while.

Especially when you're still in high school.

Scubadiver 1:02:41
Driving home from school, bro

Off Belay 1:02:45
Just so much stuff. I mean, you didn't get that in college sometimes, definitely don't need to be doing this right now, but oh well, I guess, I mean, is there, it sounds like you're kinda just in the music 100%, I was going to ask if there's anything sorta outside of music that you keep yourself entertained with, but,

Scubadiver 1:05:00
Yeah, it's pretty much music 100%, I play Xbox with the boys sometimes, you know what I mean. Shoutout the game Knockout City. Nobody plays that game, but I love it so much. It's so good. It's got like, 200 peak people playing in like one day or something, it's not very popular. But I love that game and I'm good at it too. I was diamond, that's the highest rank by the way. I'm really good at that game. Anyways, but yeah, Xbox, if anybody wants the smoke from a dodgeball game you can go get it. But um, yeah, music, I'm watching the Sopranos, that's a pretty good show. Um, I usually watch the Sopranos while I'm playing Xbox when nobody's on, or I'm just mixing and mastering stuff on the side, you know what i mean, or just sending beats or something, cuz I usually just multitask a lot. It's a like thing where, if I'm watching a TV show, why don't I watch a TV show while I'm doing this thing? Or, why don't I mix my music while I'm driving around in GTA for no reason? Cuz I could listen to music, and drive around, and it'd be kinda, you know what I mean? It's like, that's literally my mindset, it's like, why am I eating right now with no music if I could eat and watch like a YouTube video or something? It's, it's just stuff like that where like, you know, it saves time I guess, and it's better for me. You know? But, yeah. That's kinda me. Uh, I had this, I like, I like um, film a lot. If I wasn't making music, I'd make movies. But I can't make movies on my own in my house, you know what I mean? Like, so, music is great, because I have the doll, like, sitting, I can see the icon on my app screen right now, I could pull it up and make something, you know what I mean? And I could complete it in like 4 hours if I wanted to, if I was grinding really hard. A movie bro? That takes awhile. You can't really, you know what I mean, you can't do too much. But it's just anything creative, I'm into it

Off Belay 1:08:54
Yeah I feel like, I feel like, I mean, you can still make movies on low budget, but not the same with music nowadays. You can just get GarageBand for free and download anything from r/drumkits and just be going.

Scubadiver 1:09:06
Exactly bro. Lunch 77 drumkit that he co-produces every single one of my songs, I swear bro. All those drumkits.

Off Belay 1:09:14
Yeah, I mean, how do you feel that like, I mean, I feel like people are sort of pretentious with stuff like that, but, I don't know, do you think that in the underground people just kinda use what they can? Do you think it's like, an issue or, do you think some people are kind of like gatekeeping in the underground or is that not really around?

Scubadiver 1:09:42
I don't know. I think if people are gatekeeping, it's usually a joke, there's a dude named Aviad, I love Aviad, he got a JID placement, he's on Dance Now, bro. Dance Now. Yeah, he produced that, he gave the sample I think. I don't know if he did the drums or not, but I know that he did find the sample. Anyways, Aviad like, whenever somebody asks him like on his TikTok like, Hey, or like, What's the sample, bro? He like, he's like, Hey man, you know, it's actually really personal to me, uh, I don't know if I can really say, it has that connection to me. And he does that for every single comment that asks him that. I think it's hilarious. And it's like, a joke kind of way, right, but like, you know, when people ask me what like, sample I'm using when I'm making a beat and like, I don't tell them, they think I'm gatekeeping, but it's really because I can't really see it, because I screen record it, and I put it to an MP4 to MP3, and it comes out as like R Replay 4715 or 4716 or something, and like, I can't really see what the sample is. And I don't wanna go into my files, and look for the thing, and pull it up, and be like, Here it is, because I'm too lazy to do that. So, it's usually a matter of me like, you know, I'm just too lazy to give people songs, like,

Off Belay 1:12:44
Yeah. When you're finding samples, do you think more like, the sample comes first and it inspires the song, or when you have a song, you're like, Oh, I really need this, this certain type of thing, and then you go looking for it?

Scubadiver 1:13:01
Mmm. I think it's more like, I find the sample first. There's like, maybe one or two times like, this year, that I've like, I've had an idea for something and I need this specific sample, right. If I want like, a specific sample like, for an acoustic guitar, right, you don't find a lot of good acoustic guitar samples. Because most of them are just like you know, from the 60s or usually mixed wrong or they have some things on top of it or there's vocals, right. Bro, there's a hack I do, where you look up like, a song with good chords. Acoustic cover on Youtube. Bam. You sample the acoustic cover, you flip it, take the chords around, you know what I mean, and then you got something you can use. That's like, one of my hacks. But yeah like, I'll find a sample of some you know, gospel song, and I'll be really into like, like, the sound of like some 90s breakbeat stuff at the time. But I'll hear something gospel, and I'll be like, ooh, I could do something with that. And then she like, gives like a weird of like, Ahh, or something like that, and I'm like oh, I could use that and loop it or reverse it, or like, loop, you know what I mean. I could just do some cool stuff with it. So I think, I think every producer kinda has that to some extent, is what I'm like saying right now, like you know. That's how I go about it usually.

Off Belay 1:13:01
Word, word. Well, think we're running out of questions here. I mean, I already asked anything else you wanna talk about, but I mean, anything you got going on recently, anything coming up besides the album?

Scubadiver 1:13:23
Shoot man. I don't even know. Uh, I'll pair at least some more singles, I got some more singles on the way, obviously. Talked to a label the other day, that was pretty dope. That was awesome. I don't know if I can say too much about that, but just, I, it happened. It was pretty cool. Makes me feel better about myself.

Off Belay 1:13:49
Yeah, you got the label meeting, you got the WKNC interview,

Scubadiver 1:13:50
Yes sir, you know what I mean. Exactly. Exactly bro. Honestly, this interview's so dope. I love interviews. And like, you're good at this stuff so it's awesome.

Off Belay 1:13:57
Love to hear that, yeah

Scubadiver 1:13:58
I've genuinely had a good time, so

Off Belay 1:13:58
Nice when people are super passionate about what they do, you got a lot to say about your music, how you make music. Like. There's a lot of things people need to be talking about in the underground, especially. Feel like, yeah. You just got such a, I don't know. You're such a young guy, you've got such like a, you've carved out a like a little lane for yourself, you've got like, how you make albums, how you release it, you've already got like a little sound to it. Excited. Excited to see where it goes.

Scubadiver 1:13:58
Thank you. Yeah 100%. It's gonna be cool to release it, bro. Cuz I've got this, I got this album in my head right now, it'll probably come out next year sometime, I'm thinking spring, but like, like um, I got this album in my head right now, when I finish it and I execute it. I made like, I think I've made 20 songs, there's about 3 that are perfect that I would put on the album 100% right now, right. Cuz like, there are some songs where I'll make it and I'll be like yeah, it's kinda filler, know what I mean. So like, there are 3 songs, those 3 songs are like magnificent. So I cannot wait to be able to hear it. And like, the stuff that comes around them too, cuz usually when I make an album, when I finish a song, I'm like, that's the intro, or that's the outro, I don't have those yet. So when those come up, that's gonna be crazy. Because like, Collaborate man. I think Collaborate was like, one of the first songs I made, and I was like that's the intro. You know what I mean. You know, Junior Ballad, was one of the like, the last songs, I was like, that's the outro. Like, just cuz it felt like it. You know what I mean. So it's like, I don't know. I just love making an album. Just making an album is so dope. Cuz I mean, bro, you can do anything. Like, think about it. Plus, I'm like, I'm self produced, this is my studio, this is everything I record is right here on this like, little synth right here in the back. So it's like, if I have an idea, just go in GarageBand and spend like 10 minutes doing something, and then mix it for another 5, and then in 15 minutes you've added a whole 'nother part to your song that makes it way more interesting, you know what I mean. Like, let's say you bounce a demo. Oh wait, the highs are too high. You just go in the studio and you turn it down a bit. You know what I mean. Like, I don't have to pay for studio time, I can do whatever I want. Exactly. Bro, I don't know how to play saxophone. Well, guess what. I'll just sample it from somebody else, because I can do that. You know. It's like, it's amazing. I just, I love it so much, because I can literally do whatever I want. And the only thing that's stopping me is like, literally myself. And that sounds so cliche, but that's true, you know what I mean. So like, if I have like an idea for an interlude, where it's just like a jazz break, you know, I'll just, I'll make it. Give me an hour, I'll make something. Maybe I'll use some samples. One thing I don't wanna do though. I never like it when people just copy and paste samples. I don't like that. I like chopping them up, I like doing something different with them. But like, I don't know man, like I could. That's the beautiful thing about making an album. Especially if you're self producing and mixing it and everything. Cuz you can literally do whatever you want. And like, in this studio right here, I can literally make whatever song is in my brain, just give me like 5 hours and I'll have it completed, you know what I mean. It's that sick, that's what I love about it.

Off Belay 1:13:58
Yeah. What would you say if there is, cuz I mean, you got your own like, got your own production gear, you got all the ideas, got all the music, you just think it's just, like, time at that point? Just trying to make all this stuff?

Scubadiver 1:13:58
Oh, bro, it's 100% time. I don't have enough time, it's so sad. If there was like 5 more hours in the day, bro, that'd be so great, are you kidding me? Cuz like, I got school, I got homework, I got family, I gotta drive, I gotta drop people off, I gotta hang out with friends sometimes. You know, that's whatever, but like, there's just not enough time, you know what I mean. It's really tough, but, we ball, we get through it. That's the motto.

Off Belay 1:13:58
That is true. We do ball. Great way to end it. Um, I think just before we end it, is there any, I feel like you should just tell the listeners sort of like, where they can find your music, socials, stuff like that?

Scubadiver 1:13:58
Oh bro, umm, I don't know. Just, you know, Scubadiver on Spotify, Apple Music. When people, like, DM me or whatever, and they're like, or people on like Instagram or something or like TikTok are like, Yo, bro, I heard your music, and like, you know, I love it bro, and it's in my playlist or whatever, like, that's the coolest thing ever. You know, so like, even if it's like not like, your favorite, or not, I don't wanna say it. But it could very well be your favorite song, right, if you listen to one of my songs. But like, even if it's that one song that comes up in your playlist like once or twice a week, and you're vibing to it, and you're like, Oh, this is that song, and then you move on and go to the next one by Redveil, or someone like Kanye, and I'm just in your playlist somewhere, that's the coolest thing ever. Because I'm part of somebody's like, rotation, you know what I mean. Like, that's awesome. So like, I think what I wanna leave with is, just like you know, I'm a musician, and I understand my place. I make music, and you know, that song in your playlist that is mine, is very much appreciated by the artist who made it. So thank you for adding me there. And yeah, I understand that people aren't listening to my music 24/7 every week, so I'm just glad that I can be that one little piece of it, I guess, is the awesome thing. Cuz yeah, I don't listen to Kanye all the time bro, you know what I mean. But I got 2 songs on my playlist that I'll go through.

Unknown Speaker 1:13:58
(talking simultaneously)

Off Belay 1:13:58
...Appreciate them listening.

Scubadiver 1:13:58
Exactly. Exactly. Like, Denzel Curry, not my favorite artist of all time, but that last album is on rotation for like awhile. I love that. Bro, Walking, bruh, Melt session 1, uh, ain't no way.

Unknown Speaker 1:13:58
(talking simultaneously)

Off Belay 1:13:58
I'm going to see him live next month. I think uh, AG club is opening for him.

Scubadiver 1:13:58
Oh that's what's up. That's so awesome.

Off Belay 1:13:58
Yeah. People on the alt rap pipeline probably have not heard any-

Scubadiver 1:13:58
I don't know any, unfortunately

Off Belay 1:13:58
So much, I'm not taking the time to add a dollar sign. Well, I'm looking at your Spotify right now, there's sorta like, you know, the top 3 that you have in songs, in terms of like streams, say they're like the most popular, those are like Me and My Synths, No Oath, and Summatime, but like, what are your favorite songs that you've made that you like, as an outro, telling people, if they're gonna listen to 3 of their songs, what would you put them onto?

Scubadiver 1:13:58
Ooh. Well, I would start off with Collaborate because it's the intro to Godspeed To, and if you like Collaborate you're probably gonna vibe with the rest of the album, because it's kinda like a grand opener for it. I also, like, I mean, jeez, I love that song. The chord progression, like the drums, like, it's so simple, it's so good though. And then um, shoot, I really like Third Person Prayer a lot. Third Person Prayer's dope. That one's been growing a lot, which is awesome. Umm, I think it's like, under Me and My Synths, it's the most like, you know growing song, you know what I mean. Like, constantly getting more streams. So it's awesome. I love Third Person Prayer. It's like, at first, people, when they hear it they're like, Oh, this is just like some rap song over like a beat, right, and then it turns into like a breakdown, and then it has a chorus, and then it has you know, this prechorus going on, and it has this autotune reversed vocals, and then it goes to an outro with these pitched vocals, like, this is different, this is awesome. You know what I mean. Like, it's a little slice of like, you know, just imagination. I love it so much.

Off Belay 1:13:58
Yeah, yeah, pretty sure that's my number one on repeat playlist

Scubadiver 1:13:58
And then um, other song bro, Alligator. It just goes hard. Like, it's that simple.

Off Belay 1:13:58
Yeah, we got Alligator, Woof Meow, and then Dip.

Scubadiver 1:13:58
That's what's up, bro. I love Alligators. Shy owns that song. Yeah bro. Alec- Shy High owned that song so hard, and I love that song for it. It's amazing. Just, it's an incredibly interesting sample, like, acoustic guitar but panned on like the left earphone, it's got this weird violin thing that like, repeats a little bit, it's got this little synth bridge, it's like, oh man. Like come on. I love that song.

Off Belay 1:13:58
Yeah, that song is so good, yeah. Definitely recommend to listeners, fire that one up if anything. Especially like that one, like we were saying before, even if you don't hear it cuz, like, if you just listen to Alligator you won't hear it, but if you listen to it in the context of Godspeed To, it has this sort of like long fade intro from the last song, it has the like, the drums just come in and I'm like oh, I know what's coming up next.

Scubadiver 1:13:58
Yes sir. Yeah. It's almost like this, like, hype up, you know. It's almost like, it's like, one of those like, winter soldier passages where you hear it and you're like, oh, this is gonna happen now, you know it's like, jeez, I love that.

Off Belay 1:13:58
Alright. I think that's a good place to end it. What a pleasure talking to you. Thank you for coming on, sharing your story. Um, yeah, just do a little outro. Once again, thanks everybody for listening to-

Scubadiver 1:13:58
Thank you for having me.

Off Belay 1:13:58
-WKNC 88.1, this is the Alt Rap Pipeline. If you like Scubadiver, or any sort of Scubadiver-esque music, tune in Mondays at 5 PM for the Alt Rap Pipeline on WKNC 88.1 FM HD One Raleigh. Again, been here with Scubadiver today, yeah, thanks for coming in.

Scubadiver 1:13:58
Of course, thank you for having me.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai