Off the Record

0:00
What's good everyone. You're listening to WKNC 88.1 FM HD One, Raleigh. We are a student run, nonprofit radio station based out of North Carolina State University. I'm Plover and this is off the record. Here with me today is Lena from the band Secret Shame. How're you doing today?

0:14
Um, I'm doing alright. How are you?

0:16
Doing great. Thanks. Um, just to clarify is, is Asheville in the same like timezone as the rest of the state?

0:22
Yeah, I believe so.

0:24
Okay, good. I just like, a couple minutes ago, I was like, wait, am I like an hour early?

0:31
Yeah, no, it's one.

0:32
Okay. Just want to make sure. So, do you want to start by telling us a little bit about yourself? Who are you? Where are you from? I already mentioned Asheville but, yeah.

0:43
Yeah. Um, well, yeah. My name is Lena. I'm in a band called Secret Shame. And I'm from Asheville.

0:51
Nice. Um, how'd you kind of get started making music. Was it like, kind of I need the Asheville area? What was the like origin story?

1:00
Well, I grew up in Asheville. And I've lived there my whole life, unfortunately. And I kind of, I kind of have been making music as long as I can remember. My first passion was singing. And then I started making solo music when I was around the age of 10 or 11. And that progressed into playing like coffee shops and solo shows. And then I met my current bassist, Matthew, when I was 18. And we started Secret Shame.

1:41
Nice. You said 10 or 11 first wha-, that, that's impressive. That's like, that's like Mozart numbers right there. What kind of music were you making?

1:50
Well, definitely nothing on Mozart's caliber. But I would write songs on piano and sing them. But I mean, usually my, my family and friends thought that the songs were a little dark.

2:11
Nice. So, so, so is it kind of like in the line of your current music? Was there like kind of a trajectory of like, music throughout your life up to current, you know, sort of post punk darker sounds?

2:22
Um, not, not exactly I've actually had never even listened to much post punk music at all. Before Secret Shame started. But yeah, my bassist, Matthew was like, I want to start a post punk band. Do you want to do that? And I was like, sure. And I had no idea what that really meant. But, but I guess lyrically. I've always written sort of darker, I've written about like, darker subject matters.

2:59
Gotcha. So you mentioned, you mentioned your bassist. How did you meet the kind of the rest of the band? How did that what was the kind of original founding of that like?

3:10
Well, in total, we've had nine members. And it's been me and Matthew, the bassist the whole time, with like this steady rotation in and out of other people. And, and then, and then we met Nathan, four years ago, four or five years ago, he joined. And he's, he's been another very solid member, that's our drummer. But everybody else, it seems like will be there for a couple tours or an album cycle. And currently, it's just the three of us.

3:58
Is there any reason for turnovers? Just like people go their own ways?

4:02
I think that, well, we have met some toxic people, unfortunately. And that's been hard. But also, I think that people expect that it's going to be sort of like fun. But it's actually something that we're trying to make as our, we're trying to do this with our lives. And there's a lot of work and like business elements, even that go into that. And there's a lot of pressure. Sometimes it's kind of hard, but I think that a lot of people aren't ready for that.

4:37
Sure, yeah. And I'm sorry, you've met like, a bunch of toxic people and I'm glad they're no longer in your bandd and of course. Just, just got a good lean lineup.

4:45
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, everybody's, everybody's got to meet toxic people at some point. Unfortunately, but yeah.

4:55
That's very true. So what do you mean by like, like, the pressures? Is it from like a Like a label or just the grind of a tour?

5:04
Yeah, we don't, we don't have a label. And we've, we've never really had a label. But it's, um, yeah, I guess it's like, you know, recently, we got a booking agent, but for the past six years, we've been booking our own tours. And we've been putting the album's out ourselves. And, um, it's like, I guess there's, especially in Asheville, there's a lot of punk bands that will go on a few punk tours, and it's basically just like a party the whole time. And we do have, we do have fun, and we do party to an extent but, I mean especially me, but it's, it's just not. It's more like work than, um, that I think people are used to.

5:58
For sure. Yeah, that definitely sounds a lot like doing like every aspect of the music process. So do y'all handle like the mixing and mastering too? Or is that like, do you bring other collaborators in for that?

6:06
Um, no, we, we actually, well, this last album, we actually went to a studio in Asheville, that somebody our, a friend, the drummer of my drummer's, other band, co-owns this place. And it's, it's an incredible studio, and we got the chance to record there, which was really amazing.

6:31
Nice. What's the name of the studio?

6:33
It's called Drop of Sun.

6:36
Awesome. Yeah, I've been meaning to check out Asheville for some time, and I need like a list of cool things to go to.

6:42
Yeah. Well, Asheville is like a, I think it's a cool place to visit.

6:48
Gotcha.

6:49
Not a good place to live. For me, maybe other people I get, they probably do. But

6:58
What's, what's your issue with uh, Asheville?

7:00
I don't know. I guess with any place that you live your entire life, it can just be kind of, like this daunting thing of like, Oh, I know everything here. I have history in every square inch of this place. But also, it's, it's just consistently gotten, the rent is so expensive, but the minimum wage is still 7.50. Which I don't know if that's the case with all of North Carolina.

7:31
Yeah, that that especially the cities have just been hit really hard with that. And

7:36
Yeah, yeah. I think the same thing is happening to Asheville that is happening. You know, most places where there's just this boom of tourism and people buying vacation houses and the rent is, you know, $2,000 for a one bedroom, but you're making less than 20,000 a year, you know,

Yeah, it's the city for like, all the cities are just like for like tech workers, and no one else.

Yeah, yeah.

8:10
I'm not exactly related, but I heard someone recommend like a tea room in Asheville, if you know,

8:18
It's probably Dobra.

8:19
That's, that's the one. Yeah, I can't remember the name. Is, is that a good spot?

8:24
Ya know, that place is nice. We actually, uh, do a lot of like band work at both locations. Because you can just kind of sit there for hours and I don't know. Drink tea.

8:36
Isn't it a very productive atmosphere?

8:39
Yeah.

8:40
Well, y'all, of course, do make music I do want to talk about at some point, um, y'all have a new album coming out Autonomy. How are y'all feeling about that?

8:51
It's well, for, for all of us, I think that we're really excited. It's also pretty nerve wracking. This album is a lot different from the last one we did, at least that's what, the way we think. And it's, I don't know, for me, I wrote all the lyrics in like a very unhealthy mental spot. And it's really scary to, to put all these lyrics out into the world for anybody to listen to. And they're just all about my bad mental state. And anybody can can look at them and listen to them and completely judge them in however they want. And people will openly do that because they don't have any sort of connection with me. So I'm just, I'm kind of trying to prepare myself for any backlash.

10:01
Okay, that's been tough to deal with. How, how is it different exactly from Dark Synthetic? Is it? Is it like a different like musical style or like lyrical?

10:11
Yeah, I would say that, that both. We, we kind of just tried to write, I think with Dark Synthetics, you know, we had a member that tried to keep us within the guidelines of post punk. And, you know, we'd write something and they would be like, well, that doesn't sound like post punk. Let's not use it. But with this album, we kind of just let ourselves do whatever we felt like we wanted to do.

10:43
Kind of like post post punk.

10:47
It's actually post post punk punk.

10:49
Okay, gotcha. On the same page. Yeah. So I assume the album cover is kind of tied into this, like, general, I guess, messy feeling. It looks kind of like a Jackson Pollock painting almost.

11:02
Oh, that's cool. Um, it's, uh yeah. We, we kind of just exactly what you said, we kind of tried to make it into this, like, jumble of little moments. And, yeah, we tried to just, just go with it, as we did with the music.

11:28
Uh, not to make you kind of delve into new topics. I haven't listened to the single Hide a lot. It's definitely one of my favorite songs of the year. And I wanted to, yeah, of course, and one of the really cool parts is the chorus. So like, is there anything about like, kind of what, either the character or you is exactly hiding from on that song? And now we're getting into anything you don't want to get into?

11:57
Um, no, yeah, I can talk about it. It's, it is a song about myself, as are most of the songs on Autonomy, but it's, you know, I was diagnosed with anorexia over the pandemic. And that song was really the first song I ever wrote where I kind of was trying not to hide with the lyrics. But it was still in a period of time where I hadn't, I wasn't talking to anybody about the things that I was experiencing. And I was too scared to talk to anybody. Because I, you know, I'm under general reasons that people are afraid to talk about their problems or mental health issues, but I really just was afraid of what people would think or that they wouldn't believe me, or, you know, they wouldn't get it or whatever.

13:01
I definitely, oh, there's some catharsis that comes out of releasing this and like, being able to like be free with stuff, hopefully, then that that angle kind of happened.

13:10
Yeah.

13:12
So you mentioned there was sort of pandemic issues there. Uh, was there, the pandemic of course was very isolating and not the greatest for everyone. Is there, is there kind of a pandemic, sort of, overcastness on this record?

13:27
Well, it's not, I would say, so yeah. It's not about the pandemic, but it is. You know, I, I was I had been in recovery for years from anorexia, and I was feeling pretty good before the pandemic started. And then that, like being thrown into that isolation, and just being completely alone, and not being able to play music, or I guess, perform it. Yeah, it was just just isolation made me relapse into the whole thing. And, and write the songs.

14:13
Gotcha. Yeah. So performances are kind of like a big part of the music route is like a way of like, I guess, like releasing all of the create, creativity in you or something like that?

14:25
Yeah, yeah. Something like that. I would say. It's also I mean, playing shows is, is just really rewarding. And it's a really great experience to be like onstage with people you care about and you're all feeling it and people watching are feeling it too. And it definitely is a cathartic thing for me, but at the same time that's sort of delving back into those things. And that can, that can be hard.

15:02
For sure, yeah. And I know in terms of your performances like one of the uh, kind of your like costumes and general aesthetic is a really cool, like a part of how your music goes. How do y'all like, synchronize and like choose like costumes like makeup to like really sort of show, I guess another level of the music and the themes you're working with?

15:23
Well, so, uh, Halloween last year, we, we all dressed as a different type of clown. And I felt so good in my clown outfit, that I essentially just like, never took it off. And nobody else dresses that way on stage anymore except for me. And so it's I mean, like, sometimes the other members will wear makeup. Or like, cool clothes or something. But I just have really leaned into this like this, like, very colorful clown look. Yeah, I don't know, it makes it just makes me feel really good on stage. And, yeah.

16:15
So is it kind of like a, like a rebellious? Like, "hell yeah, I'm a clown. You can't stop me" type of, type of thing?

16:22
No, it's kind of like, I'm, I'm a clown. And I, I don't know, I've always been like the, like the funny one, I guess, in my groups of friends, but I also have been really sad. So I guess it's just sort of this like nod to how I felt my whole life or like, I am singing and talking about these, like really intense things. But at the same time, I'm also like, really colorful and jokester.

17:05
Clowns are weirdly like tragic figures. Aren't they, like a juxtaposition?

17:10
Yeah. I mean, just, I'm just glad that nobody has um, like, called me a Juggalo yet, but.

17:19
That's good, that's good.

17:21
Yeah, but maybe soon.

17:23
I don't know if you can hear, I'm currently knocking on wood that that would happen on your upcoming tour. I think I remember seeing the clown outfit because I was at your show with the Wicked Witch, which was amazing.

17:37
Oh, cool.

17:39
Of course, I know. And uh, how'd you like the Wicked Witch? Was that, that's a pretty gothy venue, uh?

17:47
Yeah, um, we, yeah, we've we've played there a few times. And we've had, we've had a good time there. Definitely. We're trying to branch out from like, the, like, spooky venue, type places. Because we don't really consider ourselves a goth band anymore. Yeah. But I would, I would definitely play there again.

18:16
Nice.

18:17
We're also, yeah, we're trying to find like house venues and places like that, too.

18:22
For sure. So. So when did you kind of start turning away from the like, I guess goth, was it just like this release, or just like a general like, shift in style?

18:32
I would say just a general shift over the past couple of years. A lot of people would, like, pigeonhole us as being like, a spooky band. And use a lot of adjectives for our music that we're like, dark and Halloweeny. And it's like, that's not really how, I don't know, it just, I guess it makes the things that we're writing and the things we care about feel sort of like a gimmick that we're just doing to make it sound dark. And that's not the goal, but also just for ourselves. It's not all about what other people think and say but you know, we just, yeah, it doesn't really matter if people consider us goth, but we want to branch out from that a little bit.

19:29
Sure. Uh, yeah, uh, you mentioned they were kind of a lot of other punk or punky or like kind of post punk bands in Asheville. What's the kind of like, scene like, there, are there, I guess for goth, or like, non goth bands. Are there any like, cool like, venues and stuff? Are in that area?

19:46
There are, there are a couple cool venues, yeah. I'd say Static Age is probably my favorite. It's like a DIY record store venue and there's a great eagle, which is really cool for bigger shows. But the overall music scene in Asheville is really large, but specifically the alternative music scene is, it kind of will fade. And then new people will move there, it'll come back and there'll be like, punk bands, and there's not really goth bands or post punk. But they're like power violence, like DB bands and stuff.

20:32
Okay, so uh, you mentioned the like, other scene is really big. How does it, how does like, I guess like, punk and rock and stuff, kind of like, fit in with the other stuff? I, like, what's kind of the other, I guess, genres in the overall Asheville climate?

20:49
There's a lot of like bluegrass, there's a lot of funk. And then rock. Yeah, they do not really overlap at all.

21:04
That makes sense.

21:06
I think that people who go to like, the funk shows, have no idea that there are punk shows happening right around the corner.

21:15
Yeah, for sure. And bluegrass bands always have their own venues for sure.

21:19
Yeah. It's just like somebody's backyard.

21:23
Exactly. Or like that one country bar. Yeah. I was almost gonna go to the orange peel, I think this weekend, but then I wasn't able to make it. Do y'all go there at all?

21:38
I, I do not really go to the orange peel that often. Just because I, it's a me problem. Well, first off, they search you really hard. And I hate that.

21:54
Yeah.

21:55
And also, the drinks are, I mean, it's like $10 for a PBR kind of place. But also, I have a lot of, a lot of chronic pain, and there's not really anywhere to sit down. It's kind of like, you have to stand on these hard floors for like, hours. Without any relief from that. So, I don't usually go there.

22:27
The more, uh, one of my roommates also deals with chronic pain and just like, trying to find like, good venues to like, have a place to sit down is is really, like, shockingly rare.

22:36
It's, yeah, it's hard, actually. You wouldn't think, you wouldn't expect it to be that difficult. But yeah, I guess most people want to stand when they're watching the show, which absolutely makes sense. But yeah.

22:52
Definitely. At least a couple seats. Y'all also, I know, played a hopscotch day party show. Like during I guess, that week. How was that?

23:01
That was good. That was just a couple of weeks ago, I think. And yeah, that was actually really good. The pour house is great. It sounds really good in there. And yeah, that show overall was, was really good. The turnout was good. I mean Hopscotch in general seems to be a good festival for even like smaller bands like us. But I mean, I don't know how people who live in Raleigh feel about it.

23:44
People definitely appreciate it, people don't, then don't know what it is and like, try to wander in and then yeah, there's there's that whole thing, but we stan hopscotch for sure. I was really sad I wasn't able to make it into your show. Because it was, I think, 21 plus at that point.

23:59
Oh, really?

24:00
Yeah, I think at like, at like, at 6 exactly, The Pour House becomes like 21 plus, so I had to leave.

24:07
That sucks. Yeah, we try. We try not to play that many 21 plus venues. But it's, it's hard to get around it sometimes, unfortunately.

24:19
Yeah. Is it, are most venues just like 21 plus, because like, they serve alcohol, or what's like usually the reason behind that?

24:27
It's serving alcohol. Yeah. Or, I mean, that's yeah, it's usually bars that do that. And then sometimes people will like, throw a house show and say 21 plus, just because they don't want kids in their house, but I don't know. I think that's kind of, kind of dumb.

24:48
Yeah, gotcha. Do y'all have any shows planned? Since you have an album coming out? Is there anything about that?

24:55
Yeah, we are, we're playing a handful of shows in October, playing a couple out of town shows and a local show I think. And then we are headed out to go on a pretty big tour after that.

25:16
Just like, like, out of state like, like the East Coast, that kind of thing?

25:22
We are, we are going to California and coming back.

25:26
Oh, okay. As, I've never been to, to California, uh, what are like the kind of plans over there, is there a good, I guess like, not goth, post punk scene over there?

25:47
It's a pretty good post post punk scene. No, it's, it's the, the music scenes in California are pretty incredible. Just because the, there's so many big cities and so many bands come through there. Yeah, I think I, I've been to California several times, and it's one of my favorite places. So I'm really excited about playing in California, because we've never done that before.

26:19
That sounds like a really cool opportunity. I hope you'll have a lot of fun there.

26:24
Thanks. I think we will.

26:26
That's great. At the show I went to with y'all, I think I remember like, y'all were like all at the merch table afterwards. You know like, really like interactive and like chatting with everyone. And that was, that was really cool. Do y'all have any, like, weird fan interactions at the merch table? Sometimes?

26:39
Oh god. Yes. Yes. Is the answer. I, I usually go straight to the merch table right after playing. And I've had some bizarre interactions. Pretty recently, we played a show and on the last song I um, I basically started sobbing and I couldn't really sing the, the ending of the song because I was crying too hard. And I went to the merch table and there was this person who was, they were like, trying to get me to like, cry on them?

27:30
What?

27:33
They were like, they were like, just you know, you can give me a hug and just, you can just cry on my shoulder like, like, come here. And I was like, no. And I, I had this, I had this one interaction with this woman who told me that mental health problems never go away. And that everybody's going to leave you forever.

27:58
Oh, well that's helpful.

28:00
I was like, Yay, thanks. That's awesome. But yeah, no, there's there's a lot of weird stuff that happens.

28:09
Hopefully some some good ones too.

28:12
Yeah, a lot of good ones. Mostly good. Oh, this one guy. Person. This one person told me that, um, well, they came up to the merch table, it was the last day of our last, our most recent tour, which was two weeks. And they were like, I want to congratulate you for smelling like a true human.

28:32
That is a sentence I've never heard before. Oh my.

28:36
And I was like, Yeah, I mean, I, I've been on tour for two weeks. Like, I don't know what to tell you. And they were like, no, no, it's really like, commendable that you smell the way you do. And I was like, Okay, get away from me.

28:54
How close, how close was this? This individual?

28:57
Very, very close. Way too close. Yeah. And yeah, I don't know, people will say really interesting things to you that I don't think they would say otherwise. Just because like, you know, like, you get on stage and talk about some vulnerable things. And then I think people kind of remove you from, from humanity a little bit. And they're like, oh, I can say anything to this person because they just got on stage and said all this stuff. To a roomful of people, you know?

29:31
Yeah. Yeah, it's real, like the, like, classic, like, celebrity, like, dehumanization, then you have to be one foot away from them at the merch table.

29:34
Yeah.

29:34
I was also gonna ask, I remember some, that y'all had a uh, a theme song for a play. What was that like? That sounds really cool. Like, working with a playwright like that.

29:53
Yeah, that was really fun. It was this, yeah, this local playwright that approached us and was like I'm writing, I'm writing this like, horror comedy play, and would love for you to do the song. And that was that was a really cool experience because it was the first song I've written, maybe ever, that was not from like, my own perspective or something that I've experienced. And it was, it was about the characters of the play. Yeah. And it was fun going and seeing the play and having the song like, play in the theater. Before the curtains open. Yeah. It was fun.

30:35
Was it like a, local like playwright?

30:38
Yeah.

30:39
Nice. I love local theater.

30:43
Yeah, it was, it was fun. I love theater in general. And I used to do a lot of theater. So that was a really fun experience for all of us. And we got to kind of write this like, song where we just really leaned into like, this is a, this is a spooky horror song. It's fun.

31:08
Did you, did you pick up any like, I guess costuming and performing skills from theater that really, really helped later on the line?

31:17
Maybe, um, I, I definitely learned a lot of like, what, what do you do when you're on a stage and people are watching you, like, you have to like, I don't know, in theater, there's a lot of like, moving your body in more extreme ways than you would normally move it. And I think that I just picked up like, body motions in general, throughout my life, where I'm kind of like, I don't know, like, like an animated person. Since I was in theater.

31:54
Just like, very like expressive, like, like movements.

31:56
Yeah.

31:57
Awesome.

31:58
Yeah. Either really expressive, or like, sitting in the corner of the room, not looking at anybody.

32:08
Also very powerful on the stage, of course.

32:11
Sitting in the corner of the stage, like behind the drums?

32:14
Yeah. Yeah.

32:15
Just like shaking and screaming.

32:18
That would definitely be memorable, yeah. So is there anything else you wanted to talk about?

32:25
Well, I, well, first off, I want to say thank you for, for having me.

32:30
Of course, this was awesome.

32:32
Yeah. But also, I want to say that, even though I'm the only one that could make it today, that the rest of the band is also, they, they're great. And they write really incredible music, and I love them. So I just want to say that I guess.

32:57
Hi, rest of Secret Shame. If you ever listen to this. Y'all are awesome too. I appreciate y'all tuning in. And you can check out all the interviews I and everyone here does at wknc.org/podcast and click off the record. I'm DJ plover and I've been here with Lena from Secret Shame on WKNC 88.1 FM, Raleigh.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai